Toyota sedang mengalami ujian berat - PART 01

[FortunerMan]

wah klo artikel diatas bener, parah juga ni Toyota

Yg gak parah apa...GM? Saking baik dan murah hatinya sampe bangkrut ya

[FortunerMan]

Tahun berganti...yg konsisten di atas itu lagi itu lagi...Toyonda

http://www.autoblog.com/2010/03/18/pors ... 0-vehicle/

J.D. Power and Associates has just released its 2010 Vehicle Dependability Study (VDS)... and Porsche, Lincoln and Buick have climbed on the podium (Buick, Jaguar and Lexus occupied the top spots in last year's 2009 Vehicle Dependability Study). The German automaker demonstrated a significant jump in quality (up ten spots) with Ford's brand hot on its heels (up six positions). While Buick dropped down, its score was indicative of improved quality – however, the bar had been raised.

This year's VDS found that several brands that perform well in the firm's dependability study are avoided due to public misperception about reliability. These brands include Cadillac, Ford, Hyundai, Lincoln and Mercury – all having the greatest lags between dependability performance and consumer perception. "Producing vehicles with world-class quality is just part of the battle for automakers; convincing consumers to believe in their quality is equally as important," says a J.D. Power and Associates spokesperson.

The Vehicle Dependability Study is designed to accurately measure problems experienced by original owners of three-year-old (2007 model year) vehicles. This year's study was based on responses from more than 52,000 vehicle owners surveys between October and December of 2009. Scores are based on the number of problems experienced per 100 vehicles (PP100), with lower scores reflecting higher vehicle quality.

[Risol1]

Wah ane juga bukan propesor di bidang2 beginian, ini dari pendapat ane aje nih ya:

Pertama2 ane cuma mao ingetin aja bahwa toyota itu sama aja kaya pabrik2 mobil besar lainnya yg punya birokrasi berbelit layaknya sebuah perusahaan besar. Jadi memang mungkin aja kasus ini udah terdeteksi 1-2 tahun ke belakang, tapi tetep ada 2 kemungkinan dalam kasus ini:
1. Yg namanya company gede, pada saat customer komplain sampe ada action secara company-wise, pasti ada step2 yg harus dia lewatin yg biasanya cukup makan waktu, gak mungkin proses klaim selesai dalam waktu semalam apalagi melibatkan recall berjuta2 mobil. Ibaratnya abis customer complain, itu filenya dipelajari dulu dan di file kan ke dept A, dept A lalu riset2 dan kalo casenya bisa diterusin lalu dikasi ke dept B, dst.....sampe ada keputusan final dari corporate bahwa mobil harus mereka recall karena defect dari pihak mereka (pabrikan).
Makanya kalo kita liat banyak pabrikan mobil2 lain (diluar toyota) yg nge-recall mobil2 lamanya (bukan mobil2 barunya lho) karena proses yg panjang ini.
2. Memang toyotanya yg ngumpet2 engga mao benerin defectnya sendiri: Ini juga mungkin aja terjadi karena ada indikasi bahwa petinggi toyota kasi surat edaran (internal memo) yg isinya mereka harus "tutup mata".

Ane rasa sih kasus recall besar2an toyota ini adalah kombinasi dari kedua sebab diatas.

TAPIiii, sekali lagi ane ingetin bahwa pabrikan lain juga engga lebih baik dari toyota ini, semua sama aja. Kalo kita obok2 internalnya si Honda, si Ford, si GM, si Mitsu, si Benz, si BMW, si Nissan......pasti ada aja "internal memo2" spt diatas, atau pasti ada aja kasus2 pengaduan konsumen ttg defective produknya yg udah difile dari 1-2 tahun yg lalu dan sampe sekarang masih dipelajari.

Tau darimana Sol??
Buktinya sehabis toyota kena kasus yg mencemarkan nama baiknya, berbondong2lah semua pabrikan lain untuk merecall produk2nya (ada produk yg lama, ada jg produk yg baru). Honda recall ratusan ribu mobil, mitsu dan nissan juga puluhan atau ratusan ribu....Ford juga.....
3 bulan yg lalu koq engga ada yg pada recall ya? Apakah semua defect2 yg ada di Honda, Nissan, Ford, Mitsu tsb baru ketauan within 3 bulan yg lalu? Kan engga......
Mereka cuma takut aja nasibnya sama kaya si atoyot yg ancur2an imagenya gara2 recall ini.

Jadi engga bener juga kalo kita menganggap cuma si atoyot doang yg "busuk", sedangkan produsen lain berhati mulia gara2 mereka ketakutan recall produk2nya sebelum di blow up sama media

Masalah2 recall kaya gini mah tinggal nunggu giliran aja, sekarang toyota.....besok2 yg kena pabrikan lain, Ford udah kena kemaren2 gara2 kasus pecah ban dll....

Kalo ada yg nanya lagi: Koq sekarang reaksi toyota bisa cepet setelah dibongkar oleh media?
Ya jawabannya sama lagi....karena perusahaan gede takut sama yg namanya public opinion yg bisa menghancurkan reputasinya. Makanya pada saat kasusnya masuk ke media, baru deh si toyota expedite semuanya dan bos2nya pun pada langsung turun tangan (makanya keputusan recall bisa cepet keluarnya).....ya SAMA lah dengan perusahaan mobil yg lain.

ane setuju om.. yang lain latah ikutan recall takut "ketahuan" di poin 2 yang om sebut.. kupret emang ya orang2 yang kayak gitu...
asal jangan seperti mitsu aja, yang nutupin malah anak buahnya... halah..

Sebenernya sih latah recall oleh pabrikan2 lain bukan karena mereka semua ketakutan ketahuan gara2 point 2 diatas, tapi mungkin juga gara2 point 1. Siapa yg tau sih?
Mungkin aja komplain2 dari konsumen yg semestinya masih harus diteliti/diresearch (apakah memang bener2 defect dari sisi produsen atau engga), sekarang ini langsung aja di gol-kan sama pabrikan jadi recall campaign.......karena produsen2 tsb takut dengan sentimen publik sekarang

Begitu juga dengan toyota, mereka mungkin aja menganggap kasus unintended accel ini sebagai defect yg scopenya cuma kasus per kasus aja, bukan defect yg menjangkit sebagian besar mobil2nya sehingga perlu diadakan recall.....
Kalo ane inget omongannya insinyur toyota pas pertama kali kasus ini keluar dimedia, mereka ngomong bahwa unintended accel ini udah ditest berkali2 tapi engga bisa re-createnya/gak bisa di emulasi. (kalo di IT itu ibaratnya susah bikin Test Case-nya untuk re-create defect yg sama).

Makanya sebelum adanya recall ini, ada yg namanya settlement2 dari toyota atau ada yg namanya buyback program dari toyota untuk konsumen2 yg mobilnya punya masalah thd unintended accel ini (Ane bilang mungkin karena toyota waktu itu percaya bahwa ini hanya defect per kasus aja, bukan menyeluruh).
Toyota itu engga bodoh, kalo memang dia yakin bahwa defect ini sifatnya menyeluruh, kenapa dia engga recall aja mobil2nya dari dulu ATAU kenapa dia engga langsung pasangin aja itu shim (pelat besi) di gas pedal untuk next batch camry yg keluar dari assembling plantnya....kan mustinya gampang banget toh kalo bisa dilakukan pas mobil masih ada di assembling plant?
Atau kalo memang gara2 electronic module, kenapa engga re-program aja itu electronic modulenya 2-3 tahun yg lalu pas defect ditemukan?

Intinya adalah kita engga tau bagaimana kondisi internal toyota, mungkin aja mereka memang sengaja nutup2in, tapi mungkin juga karena proses riset unintended accel tsb belum selesai, atau mungkin karena kombinasi2 tsb.

Ane dulu pernah beli mobil (bukan toyota ) thn 06 akhir, 6 bulan pertama ane pake banyak banget electrical problemnya (wiper goyang sendiri lah, sensor2 pada nyala semua lah, dll), ane komplain bbrp kali dan akhirnya mobil tsb dibuyback sama pabrikannya. Itu artinya ane dapet settlement dong dari pihak pabrikan yg kasi ane pake gratis selama 6 bulan pertama (ane percaya kalo sampe ane tabrakan gara2 electrical problem, ane bisa tuntut tu pabrikan dan bisa apet duit banyak ).
Ane juga percaya setelah mobil ane dibuyback sama si pabrikan, itu mobil bakal diresearch untuk dicari penyebab defectnya apa?

Tapi sampe sekarang pun (udah 3.5 tahun), ane engga pernah liat tuh bahwa itu pabrikan adain recall campaign buat mobil2 yg sejenis dengan mobil ane untuk defect yg sama.
Nah mungkin aja toyota juga sama kasusnya kaya gini, tapi keburu di blew up aja sama media.

[Risol1]

nanya lagi nih, emangnya badan transportasi nasional negara mana gitu, boleh gak sih "ngobok2" hal2 yang semacam ini? jadi mereka memberikan layanan komplain kalo komplain ke ATPM gak ditanggapi, selanjutnya badan ini akan melakukan investiasi secara menyeluruh. emang sih, biayanya jadi tinggi.. tapi kalo ternyata dari hasil investigasi ini terbukti, ATPM akan dikenakan denda atau hukuman lain karena telah "mengabaikan" komplain dari pengguna...
yah, intinya adalah memberikan keselamatan, kenyamanan bagi konsumen..

di amrik yang hukumnya lebih baik daripada indonesia aja kayak gitu.. apalagi negara ane nih...

Kalo di US selain ada NHTSA (scopenya Federal), konsumen juga dilindungi oleh berbagai macam state law, dan yg paling terkenal untuk perlindungan konsumen mobil adalah Lemon Law. Tiap2 state beda2 hukumnya.

Kalo di state ane, kita bisa pake lemon law kalo:
1. Defect mobil terjadi within 1 tahun pertama atau 12000 miles (yg mana duluan)
2. mobil masuk bengkel (atau out of service) selama 30 hari atau lebih

Dah gitu doang. Kalo itu terjadi di mobil kita, dealer musti beli balik secara utuh (satu cent pun gak boleh dikurangin)

Negara ente ya negara ane juga hihihi....emangnya om FM.......WNA

[Risol1]

Bro, kenapa cruise control dibatasi max 100 kpj, ya belajar dari kasus Mr Audi itu. Kalau sekarang dibilang Audi nggak ada apa2, juga bagi saya nggak masalah krn problem solved. Terima kasih kepada insinyur2 VW yang sangat bertanggung jawab.

Ane belon pernah denger kalo cruise control dibatesin sampe 100kpj aja. Mobil camry jadul ane aja bisa diset ke 130kpj cruise controlnya dan masih bisa nambah lagi.

Busyet, Toyota bisa ya? Gak melanggar hukum?

Bisa lah bos.....merek lain juga bisa.
Itu mungkin aturannya beda2 kali di tiap2 negara (bukan standard pabrikan)

[Risol1]

Mungkin perlu juga makan2 untuk ini - Best selling car in America, 12 straight years, wins Motor Trend Comparison test... http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sed ... index.html

1. Toyota Camry 2. Ford Fusion 3. Hyundai Sonata...

Korban recall, udah tua, banyak saingan baru...eh, masih punya gigi ternyata

klo gw baca, camry mmg best selling 12x tp kyknya bukan berturut2
cmiiw... soalnya gw cupu bhs asing

msh dr link diatas....

The bigger issue is Toyota's image problem. The PR spin and response have been unimpressive, and the revelation that Toyota hired ex-NHTSA guys to help close five of eight NHTSA sudden-accel investigations since 2003 hasn't helped. Then there are the subpoenaed documents that have yet to be digested, which Toyota whistle-blower Dimitrios Biller says will prove the company systematically hid and destroyed evidence of safety problems. Things will probably get worse before they get better. Meanwhile resale values have taken a hit of between four and six percent, according to Kelly Blue Book, and some experts think that could go to 10 percent before this is over. Present ALG data indicates our Camry LE's residual values ranked fifth in this test, just above the domestics.

Maap ane salah baca...bukan 12 straight...tapi 12 kali...ganti2an sama Accord sebelum mengalahkan Taurus duluan. Yg jelas saingan ke depan Ford dan Hyundai sudah makin berat, tapi Camry tuir ini masih punya gigi. The next Camry bakalan lebih mantabsssssss...

Jelas aja image problem lagi di tengah recall Tapi dikasi diskon dikit yg beli masih berbondong bondong...

Camry best selling car dari tahn 97-00, lanjut lagi dari 02-09, total 12 tahun
Die cuma kalah sekali sama honda accord thn 01 (generasi camry yg modelnya masih cupu)

[Risol1]

wah klo artikel diatas bener, parah juga ni Toyota

Yg gak parah apa...GM? Saking baik dan murah hatinya sampe bangkrut ya

Hehehe....itu 12 juta illegal immigrant pasti ada aja tuh yg nyelip ke GM, sama2 dibayar murah with no benefits...hihihihi......
Apalagi kalo di trace back ke jaman slavery, wah......jauh lebih parah

[FortunerMan]

Camry best selling car dari tahn 97-00, lanjut lagi dari 02-09, total 12 tahun
Die cuma kalah sekali sama honda accord thn 01 (generasi camry yg modelnya masih cupu)

ooo ic ic...beda tipis lah kalo gitu ama 12 straight...kalo cuman take a break setaun

Sebenernya waktu ane di Amerika suka gak ngerti kok ini mobil bikin ngantuk bener ya tampangnya (apalagi model Camry jadul 02-06)...kaya kacang goreng pula lakunya. Pas ke Indonesia kok lumayan ya tampangnya...apalagi Camry yg skrg, kaget kok bagus bener tampangnya di Indonesia...kaya Lexus aja udah...

[asudarsono]

Camry laris krn Corolla terlalu kecil.

[maskopat]

Sebenernya sih latah recall oleh pabrikan2 lain bukan karena mereka semua ketakutan ketahuan gara2 point 2 diatas, tapi mungkin juga gara2 point 1. Siapa yg tau sih?
Mungkin aja komplain2 dari konsumen yg semestinya masih harus diteliti/diresearch (apakah memang bener2 defect dari sisi produsen atau engga), sekarang ini langsung aja di gol-kan sama pabrikan jadi recall campaign.......karena produsen2 tsb takut dengan sentimen publik sekarang

Begitu juga dengan toyota, mereka mungkin aja menganggap kasus unintended accel ini sebagai defect yg scopenya cuma kasus per kasus aja, bukan defect yg menjangkit sebagian besar mobil2nya sehingga perlu diadakan recall.....
Kalo ane inget omongannya insinyur toyota pas pertama kali kasus ini keluar dimedia, mereka ngomong bahwa unintended accel ini udah ditest berkali2 tapi engga bisa re-createnya/gak bisa di emulasi. (kalo di IT itu ibaratnya susah bikin Test Case-nya untuk re-create defect yg sama).

Makanya sebelum adanya recall ini, ada yg namanya settlement2 dari toyota atau ada yg namanya buyback program dari toyota untuk konsumen2 yg mobilnya punya masalah thd unintended accel ini (Ane bilang mungkin karena toyota waktu itu percaya bahwa ini hanya defect per kasus aja, bukan menyeluruh).
Toyota itu engga bodoh, kalo memang dia yakin bahwa defect ini sifatnya menyeluruh, kenapa dia engga recall aja mobil2nya dari dulu ATAU kenapa dia engga langsung pasangin aja itu shim (pelat besi) di gas pedal untuk next batch camry yg keluar dari assembling plantnya....kan mustinya gampang banget toh kalo bisa dilakukan pas mobil masih ada di assembling plant?
Atau kalo memang gara2 electronic module, kenapa engga re-program aja itu electronic modulenya 2-3 tahun yg lalu pas defect ditemukan?

Intinya adalah kita engga tau bagaimana kondisi internal toyota, mungkin aja mereka memang sengaja nutup2in, tapi mungkin juga karena proses riset unintended accel tsb belum selesai, atau mungkin karena kombinasi2 tsb.

Ane dulu pernah beli mobil (bukan toyota ) thn 06 akhir, 6 bulan pertama ane pake banyak banget electrical problemnya (wiper goyang sendiri lah, sensor2 pada nyala semua lah, dll), ane komplain bbrp kali dan akhirnya mobil tsb dibuyback sama pabrikannya. Itu artinya ane dapet settlement dong dari pihak pabrikan yg kasi ane pake gratis selama 6 bulan pertama (ane percaya kalo sampe ane tabrakan gara2 electrical problem, ane bisa tuntut tu pabrikan dan bisa apet duit banyak ).
Ane juga percaya setelah mobil ane dibuyback sama si pabrikan, itu mobil bakal diresearch untuk dicari penyebab defectnya apa?

Tapi sampe sekarang pun (udah 3.5 tahun), ane engga pernah liat tuh bahwa itu pabrikan adain recall campaign buat mobil2 yg sejenis dengan mobil ane untuk defect yg sama.
Nah mungkin aja toyota juga sama kasusnya kaya gini, tapi keburu di blew up aja sama media.

bisa jadi defect itu gak bisa mereka temukan dengan gampang. maksud om risol, sifatnya kadang2 gitu kan ya?

hm.. lemon law ini bagus juga ya. tapi bisa jadi kalo penggunanya nakal, bisa komplain mulu. tapi dari sisi pengguna, kalo ada defect yang sifatnya intermittent gitu, susah juga mau klaim ke produsen..

btw, mobil ente yang di-buy-back itu, apakah masih terdengar keluhan yang sama dari pengguna lain? atau bisa jadi mobil yang om risol beli itu yang katanya "mobil yang dibikin pas weekend"... jadi pengerjaannya asal2an gitu...

[Captivated]

wah klo artikel diatas bener, parah juga ni Toyota

Yg gak parah apa...GM? Saking baik dan murah hatinya sampe bangkrut ya

Hehehe....itu 12 juta illegal immigrant pasti ada aja tuh yg nyelip ke GM, sama2 dibayar murah with no benefits...hihihihi......
Apalagi kalo di trace back ke jaman slavery, wah......jauh lebih parah

@fm : GM terlalu murah hati ama union kyknya.... kekekekek

@risol : ini menarik, bisa kasih pencerahan buat ane bgmn GM (n mgkn Detroit 3) mempekerjakan underpaid/ilegal workers tsb?
- brp banyak? klo di Toyota bs sampe 1/3 (brdasar artikel tsb)
- brp gajinya? klo di toyota bs sampe <50% UMR
- jam kerjanya? dibandingkan dgn pekerja normal
utk 5 thn terakhir. jgn pake data dr jaman PD II ya... jaman itu Indo aja msh dijajah

yg msh membingungkan, sbrp besarkah porsi upah labor/workers dlm pricing mbl? kok keliatannya gara2 gaji karyawan (UAW?) sampe GM bangkrut

[toyotaman]

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/the-tr ... nt-1606921

The Truth About JD Power’s 2010 Vehicle Dependability Survey
By Michael Karesh on March 18, 2010


I conduct a car reliability survey at TrueDelta.com. Since we promptly update our results four times a year, we can report on new models ahead of anyone else. Last year, we announced that the 2009 Jaguar XF was faring poorly. This provoked a blistering backlash from owners at a particular Jaguar forum. In the end, threads on reliability were deleted and future ones all but banned in the interest of preserving what remained of the UK auto industry.


The outraged owners argued that TrueDelta’s results could not be correct, since Jaguar had just been declared the most dependable make by J.D. Power. I pointed out that the VDS covers the third year of ownership, 2006 in that case, and that Jaguar had discontinued, redesigned, or replaced every model in its line save the XJ in the interim. So the results did not apply to the XF, or the current XK for that matter.


Well, J.D. Power has now released the 2010 Vehicle Dependability Survey (VDS), which covers 2007s in their third year of ownership, and, as predicted, the redesigned XK has, all by its lonesome, sunk Jaguar’s ranking from 1st to 23rd. And it’ll only get uglier once the XF is reflected in these stats in another two years.


#1 this year: Porsche. Many people will wonder how Porsche fared so well. One likely factor: Porsches are often weekend cars that aren’t driven much. J.D. Power might consider doing what TrueDelta does, and post average odometer readings. A larger factor: THERE WAS NO 2007 CAYENNE—Porsche skipped straight from 2006 to 2008. The Cayenne is likely more troublesome than the sports cars, and is certainly driven more. So don’t expect a top VDS score for Porsche next year, when the Cayenne is again part of the mix.


“Long term” for J.D. Power continues to mean “the third year of ownership.” It used to mean the fifth year, but manufacturers have little use for fifth-year data, and this survey primarily exists to serve manufacturers willing to pay large sums for detailed results.


Many car buyers, though, are much more interested in how cars fare after the 3/36 warranty ends. J.D. Power has no information for them, hoping that car buyers will accept third-year problem frequencies as a sufficient indicator of how a car will perform over the long haul. Unfortunately, in many cases it is not. TrueDelta’s data suggest that all too often cars take a turn for the worse either soon after the warranty ends or after 100,000 miles.


As usual, the public gets brand-level scores rather than model-level scores from J.D. Power. Brand-level scores are of limited use for a car buyer, and can actually misinform as much as they inform. After all, people don’t buy the entire line. They buy a particular model. And the scores of models can vary widely within a brand.


Much is made of which brands did better this year (Porsche, Lincoln), and which did worse (Jaguar). Well, as noted above, the brand averages can be heavily influenced by the introduction of a single new design or the absence of a single old design.


For these and other reasons a focus on model-level scores would be much more valid and useful.


Also worth noting: as in the past most makes are tightly bunched around the average, 155 problems per 100 cars this year. Consumer Reports considers any score within 20 percent of the average in its own survey to be “about average.” Applying this metric to J.D. Power’s results, 21 of the 36 brands are “about average.”


J.D. Power notes that for Cadillac, Ford, Hyundai, Lincoln, and Mercury perceptions of reliability lag reality. No surprise, since (as I’ve found all too often) people often judge (and more often than not reject) data based on how these data fit their perceptions rather than judging their perceptions based on how they fit the data.


J.D. Power’s explicit solution: convince consumers of gains in reliability. The implicit solution: pay to include VDS results in your ads. But are perceptions based on the VDS any more likely to be correct? Or, as seen in the Porsche and Jaguar cases, are they just as often part of the problem?

[toyotaman]

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/our-re ... r-reports/

Our Reporter Reports on Consumer Reports
By Michael Karesh on June 27, 2006

For decades, Consumer Reports has been the American automobile buyer’s primary source for vehicle reliability information. Tens of millions of highly-educated, independent-minded people have made their car purchase based on a brace of red dots. While I don’t care for the dots– they’re a blunt instrument that can hide as much information as they convey– I’ve always assumed that Consumer Reports’ (CR) underlying data was solid. And then I took their survey…


Of the survey’s 19 questions, only one collects the data that's ultimately responsible for Consumer Reports' final, all-important reliability dots: question number 13.


“If you had any problems with your car in the last year (April 1, 2005 through March 31, 2006) that you considered SERIOUS because of cost, failure, safety or downtime, click the appropriate box(es) for each car. INCLUDE problems covered by warranty. DO NOT INCLUDE 1) problems resulting from accident damage; or 2) replacement of normal maintenance items (brake pads, batteries, mufflers) unless they were replaced much sooner or more often than expected.”


CR’s form then lists the car’s major systems, with a simple checkbox next to each. That means that multiple problems with a single system, such as ongoing hassles with a car’s electrics, count once. Equally troubling, respondents are supposed to remember a car problem that may have occurred over a year ago. They also need to remember whether incidents near the cutoff happened in March or April. Respondents that err on the safe side and report problems that might have happened within the timeframe, and do this year after year, are likely to report some problems twice.


There's an even more profound methodological iceberg dead ahead. CR’s dots signal “SERIOUS” problems [note the caps], yet never defines the term. I’ve always wondered how CR staffers decided whether a problem is “serious” enough to include in their survey. They don’t. CR’s question 13 requires that individual respondents make the call, based on “cost, failure, safety or downtime,” or other entirely subjective criteria.


This is a buck that should not be passed. Anyone with a significant other knows that two people hardly ever agree on what constitutes a “serious” problem. As CR does not provides clear guidelines as to which problems qualify as SERIOUS and which do not, the resulting data is not reliable. Would it be so hard for CR to provide a definition of that includes a dollar amount or the number of days out of service? Apparently so.


Without unambiguous guidelines, extraneous influences intrude. First, there’s the respondent’s general opinion of the car. Things gone right can ameliorate things gone wrong. Why else would some people keeping buying those pricey “black dot” jobs? Second, the reliability of cars past shapes consumers’ expectations. If the participant’s previous car lost a transmission, then a bad alternator may not seem so SERIOUS. Unless the current car is the same brand, and the participant is starting to feel twice fooled. Then a burned-out turn signal may seem SERIOUS. And third, if the dealer was smart enough to play nice, maybe kicking in a free loaner, then a SERIOUS problem will seem less severe.


Finally, we come to the part of the question which cautions that replacement of “normal maintenance items” shouldn’t be reported “unless they were replaced much sooner or more often than expected.” This instruction lumps maintenance and repair items together, with no way for CR’s analysts to separate the data later (should they be so ambitious). And, once again, the respondent must define terms, deciding what items count as “normal” and assess the gap between their expectations and reality (usually called irony).


If CR is going to include wear items, it should specify how long they should last. But how long should brake pads last? Expectations are going to vary. A lot. Brake pad life is heavily affected by driving style, driving conditions, a tire shop’s financial goals and other factors that have nothing to do with reliability. And batteries? How many times were the lights left on? How much crud has been allowed to build up around the terminals? Asking average car owners to gauge their vehicle’s parts wear against an entirely subjective ideal does not a scientific study make. If they really want to know about brake pads and batteries, they should at least ask about them separately, to keep the nasty things from contaminating the entire data set. And provide some guidelines.


I’m no triskaidekaphobic. But Consumer Reports’ question 13 does nothing to instill confidence in their reliability ratings, and much to cast doubt on their value. Respondents and readers need a more scientific and, ultimately, more useful guide to automotive reliability. Until CR’s survey undergoes a major overhaul, readers will be misled and manufacturers won’t have the valuable feedback they need to make genuine improvements.

[toyotaman]

http://www.leftlanenews.com/toyota-rese ... odels.html


Toyota researching fix for 1.2 million Corolla and Matrix models
03/17/2010, 6:50 PMBy Mark Kleis

In addition to the 8 million vehicles already being recalled by Toyota, another 1.2 million 2005-07 Corolla and Matrix passengers cars are being considered for a solution, which may or may not include a recall. Toyota is currently aware of a known issue where by the vehicles can stall without warning, but has yet to find a fix.


Leftlane first reported that NHTSA was reviewing customer complaints regarding up to 386,000 2006 Toyota Corolla and Matrix passengers cars for their potential to stall without warning. Now, NHTSA says the number of complaints filed has tripled, and the number of vehicles being considered for a fix by Toyota has more than tripled to 1.2 million.


The study by NHTSA was said to be focused on an electronic control module that controls many aspects of engine operation, including fuel and air ratios. Toyota also mentioned in a service bulletin on the matter that many customers had reported rough shifting on the affected models, another area controlled by the ECM. At the time of our first report, Toyota officials had not commented on the investigation.


The investigation shifts gears


Now that the investigation has been taking place for several months, Toyota has commented and suggested that they are aware of the “flaw,” but that they don’t believe the problems poses “an unreasonable risk” in regard to safety. Free Press points out that as of early this month NHTSA list of complaints had grown to 76, including owners who reported trouble restarting the vehicle after stalling and one possibly related vehicle fire.


Toyota’s letter to NHTSA outlined the affected vehicles (2005-07 Corolla and Matrix) were stalling due to a physical fault that occurred during production on the vehicles’ engine control units. Toyota pointed the issues to two separate suppliers as the root cause.


“Toyota has been investigating this issue and is now considering how to address our customer concerns,” Toyota explained in a letter sent to NHTSA on March 2, 2010, and obtained by the Free Press. “Based upon its analysis, Toyota does not believe that the alleged defect creates an unreasonable risk to motor vehicle safety.”


Toyota also said that if the issue occurs it would trigger a warning light on the dash, and added that although some owners were “inconvenienced” by their vehicle’s engine stalling, the stalling was “preferable as opposed to allowing the engine to become damaged or dangerous (i.e., catastrophic failure, fire, etc.).”

[roadtrain99]

@captivated
kalo gw gak salah, kebanyakkan produsen mobil us keteteran krn cc nya besar, sementara org mulai tertarik ke prius atau hybrid atau yg cc nya agak kecil. itu gw pernah liat di berita spt itu.

[FortunerMan]

http://www.autoblog.com/2010/03/19/feds ... ius-in-ny/

Feds suggest driver error may have caused runaway Prius in NY
Last week we told you about an incident in New York involving unintended acceleration in a 2005 Toyota Prius. This accident occurred just after the high-profile case involving Jim Sikes and his runaway Prius in San Diego, but unlike that incident where the car eventually came to a complete stop, the New York Prius crashed into a stone wall with the driver suffering minor, non-life threatening injuries.

Now, after a full investigation, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration has ruled that this accident was likely caused by driver error, rather than a faulty brake system. NHTSA delivered this message to reporters:

"Information retrieved from the vehicle's onboard computer systems indicated there was no application of the brakes and the throttle was fully open."

Toyota spokesperson John Hanson says that the accident is being looked over by the Harrison, NY police department, and that the automaker will not comment until the investigation has completed. And while Toyota did join in with the investigation of Sikes' Prius, it is not clear if the automaker will take a closer look at this second incident.

With the validity of Jim Sikes' story coming under attack and the incident in New York likely being a true accident, we have to wonder how many other runaway Toyota incidents have been much ado about nothing other than driver error, intended or otherwise. With both the NHTSA and Toyota under a microscope, each one will likely be investigated by the feds and local authorities, as well as possibly Toyota too. Neither high-profile incident mentioned above has resulted in a solid case against Toyota and its products, a streak that may or may not continue depending on the result of each investigation going forward.

[asudarsono]

Emang pemilik Toyota banyak yg kayak gitu

[DOHC]

ngomong2 soal recall, rada aneh jg yahh, toyota recall ga lama pabrikan2 mobil jepang laen jg menyusul recall... apa jangan2 ini solidaritas antar sesama perusahaan jepang yahh.... sama kaya di F1 gt, toyota ama honda kluar, si bridgestone lgs ogah lanjutin supply ban ke F1 walaupun uda di tawarin kontrak yg yahudd...

[Captivated]

@captivated
kalo gw gak salah, kebanyakkan produsen mobil us keteteran krn cc nya besar, sementara org mulai tertarik ke prius atau hybrid atau yg cc nya agak kecil. itu gw pernah liat di berita spt itu.

gw pikir jg demikian bro. faktor upah buruh kurang signifikan dibanding dgn inventory tinggi gara2 mobil kurang laku
mknya klo bener bgitu, ngapain coba perusahaan raksasa seperti toyota masih tega2nya "memerah" karyawan sendiri. pdhl produk2nya laku keras n ktnya untung gede. karyawan itu aset, bukan sapi perah. klo ga ada mrk emg mau petinggi2 toyota gantiin kerja mrk?
perusahaan2 kecil di Indonesia aja ga bayar kryawannya dibawah UMR (apalgi sampe dibwh setengahnya.... ckckckck)

[Captivated]

Emang pemilik Toyota banyak yg kayak gitu

[FortunerMan]

@captivated
kalo gw gak salah, kebanyakkan produsen mobil us keteteran krn cc nya besar, sementara org mulai tertarik ke prius atau hybrid atau yg cc nya agak kecil. itu gw pernah liat di berita spt itu.

gw pikir jg demikian bro. faktor upah buruh kurang signifikan dibanding dgn inventory tinggi gara2 mobil kurang laku
mknya klo bener bgitu, ngapain coba perusahaan raksasa seperti toyota masih tega2nya "memerah" karyawan sendiri. pdhl produk2nya laku keras n ktnya untung gede. karyawan itu aset, bukan sapi perah. klo ga ada mrk emg mau petinggi2 toyota gantiin kerja mrk?
perusahaan2 kecil di Indonesia aja ga bayar kryawannya dibawah UMR (apalgi sampe dibwh setengahnya.... ckckckck)

Gak laku krn buruk rupa buruk kualitas... + high cost

http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/ ... full_list/
2010 World's Most Admired Companies
1. Apple
2. Google
3. Berkshire Hathaway
4. Johnson & Johnson
5. Amazon.com
6. Procter & Gamble
7. Toyota Motor
8. Goldman Sachs
9. Wal-Mart
10. Coca-Cola

Parah emang Toyota ...

[FortunerMan]

Emang pemilik Toyota banyak yg kayak gitu

Memang di Amerika average buyer Toyota semakin uzur...makanya si Toyoda giat bikin mobil sport/sporty lagi. Dulu malah bikin merek khusus anak muda (Scion)...tapi hasilnya biasa aja kalo gak bisa dibilang gagal. Bergerak ke atas sukses besar (Lexus), bergerak ke bawah (Scion)...zzzzzz....

[mandala1]

Gak laku krn buruk rupa buruk kualitas... + high cost

http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/ ... full_list/
2010 World's Most Admired Companies
1. Apple
2. Google
3. Berkshire Hathaway
4. Johnson & Johnson
5. Amazon.com
6. Procter & Gamble
7. Toyota Motor
8. Goldman Sachs
9. Wal-Mart
10. Coca-Cola

Parah emang Toyota ...

[maskopat]

Gak laku krn buruk rupa buruk kualitas... + high cost

http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/ ... full_list/
2010 World's Most Admired Companies
1. Apple
2. Google
3. Berkshire Hathaway
4. Johnson & Johnson
5. Amazon.com
6. Procter & Gamble
7. Toyota Motor
8. Goldman Sachs
9. Wal-Mart
10. Coca-Cola

Parah emang Toyota ...

tapi kan toyota kagak ngasih uang ke ente lebih banyak daripada merk sebelah om...

[FortunerMan]

http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/ ... full_list/
2010 World's Most Admired Companies
1. Apple
2. Google
3. Berkshire Hathaway
4. Johnson & Johnson
5. Amazon.com
6. Procter & Gamble
7. Toyota Motor
8. Goldman Sachs
9. Wal-Mart
10. Coca-Cola

Parah emang Toyota ...

Kalo penasaran...the rest of the Top 50

11 Microsoft
12 Southwest Airlines
13 FedEx
14 McDonald's
15 IBM
16 General Electric
17 3M
18 J.P. Morgan Chase
19 Walt Disney
20 Cisco Systems
21 Costco Wholesale
22 BMW
22 Target
24 Nike
25 PepsiCo
26 Starbucks
27 Singapore Airlines
28 Exxon Mobil
29 American Express
30 Nordstrom
31 Intel
32 Hewlett-Packard
33 UPS
34 Nestlé
35 Caterpillar
36 Honda Motor
37 Best Buy
38 Sony
39 Wells Fargo
40 eBay
41 Nokia
42 Samsung Electronics
43 Deere
44 L'Oréal
45 AT&T
46 Lowe's
47 General Mills
48 Marriott International
49 DuPont
50 Volkswagen