Honda menjauhi Diesel...kenapa?

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FortunerMan

Honda menjauhi Diesel...kenapa?

Post by FortunerMan »

http://www.autoblog.com/2010/07/16/repo ... s-on-hybr/
Honda to abandon clean diesel development, focus on hybrids
Honda drops diesel development dan konsentrasi ke electric hybrid, sedangkan merek Eropa malah getol2nya sama modern diesel. Kemana arah otomotif dunia? Di Amerika diesel nggak main, di Eropa diesel ngetop. Mungkin penentunya emerging markets seperti China...

Kalo untuk Indonesia yg masih banyak pake diesel jadul - mungkin lebih tepat ngikut ke arah Honda...
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Re: Honda menjauhi Diesel...kenapa?

Post by ammophobia »

Mungkin engineer-engineer di Honda udah menyerah karena gak bisa ngikuti perkembangan teknologi diesel jaman sekarang? :D

Mungkin juga diesel kurang sesuai dengan aturan tak tertulis honda yaitu redline minimal di 7000 rpm :D
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Re: Honda menjauhi Diesel...kenapa?

Post by ilhami »

nggak apa-apa..toh F1 nggak pakai mesin diesel :big_peace:
Ferari diesel ada nggak ya?
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Re: Honda menjauhi Diesel...kenapa?

Post by maskopat »

F1 emang belum ada yang diesel. tapi di 24Hrs LeMans, diesel kabeh yang jawara...
di rally dakar, diesel juga jawaranya...
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Re: Honda menjauhi Diesel...kenapa?

Post by DOHC »

F1 kalo ada diesel kayanya kasian tuh kalo ada tabrakan... lah skrg yg pake mesin bengsin aja tabrakan cukup gila2an.. :upss: :upss: :upss:
numpang lewat aja.... :ngacir: :ngacir:
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Re: Honda menjauhi Diesel...kenapa?

Post by maskopat »

emang kenapa kalo tabrakan? bedanya apa tabrakan mesin diesel dengan bensin? :e-think:
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Re: Honda menjauhi Diesel...kenapa?

Post by Turboman »

FortunerMan wrote:http://www.autoblog.com/2010/07/16/repo ... s-on-hybr/
Honda to abandon clean diesel development, focus on hybrids
Honda drops diesel development dan konsentrasi ke electric hybrid, sedangkan merek Eropa malah getol2nya sama modern diesel. Kemana arah otomotif dunia? Di Amerika diesel nggak main, di Eropa diesel ngetop. Mungkin penentunya emerging markets seperti China...

Kalo untuk Indonesia yg masih banyak pake diesel jadul - mungkin lebih tepat ngikut ke arah Honda...
alasan bisnis aja kayaknya.....

pabrik mah selalu berorientasi menurunkan biaya produksi / mencari celah pasar yg masih "blue ocean" / antisipasi market trend

Di US standard emisi Diesel sgt ketat, membuat development cost mesin2 very clean Diesel jadi mahal....belum lagi issue ULSD di US itu konon kualitasnya gak sebagus di Eropa, ULSD di US konon byk yg HFRR-nya tinggi, bisa bikin pompa injeksi aus prematur. CMIIW

Di Eropa sendiri juga GDI Turbo lagi naik daun, mungkin krn pasar Clean Diesel kompetisi-nya sdh sgt ketat......juga banyak produsen mengarah ke Hybrid, seiring standard penurunan emisi CO2 oleh EU.

Yg saya appreciate dari teknik hybrid oleh produsen2 Eropa, mereka menerapkan teknik hybrid dalam berbagai tingkatan, mulai dr yg sederhana spt sistem alternator 2 arah (jadi dinamo saat ngerem / cut off saat akselerasi) sampai teknik Full hybrid.

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Re: Honda menjauhi Diesel...kenapa?

Post by aldy »

Oiya mesin diesel suaranya ga bisa senikmat mesin bensin he2 :big_peace:
Putaran mesin terbatas juga..
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Re: Honda menjauhi Diesel...kenapa?

Post by gemelli »

karena Honda FCX Clarity...
btw Fuel Cell Electric ini termasuk teknologi Hybrid bukan ya?
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Re: Honda menjauhi Diesel...kenapa?

Post by Turboman »

gemelli wrote:karena Honda FCX Clarity...
btw Fuel Cell Electric ini termasuk teknologi Hybrid bukan ya?
Yg dimaksud hybrid = sistem penggerak dgn kombinasi 2 Powerplant yg berbeda

Fuel Cell = Sistem pembangkit listrik dengan mekanisme kerja penggabungan 2 atom yg berbeda.

Fuel cell bisa menggunakan bahan baku Hydrogen + Oksigen dgn "limbah" = H2O , juga bisa menggunakan Carbon + Oksigen dgn "limbah" = CO2 atau Hidrokarbon + Oksigen dengan "limbah" H2O + CO2.

Pada mobil Fuel Cell, listrik yg dihasilkan Fuel Cell utk menggerakkan electro motor.

Kalau pada Notebook pernah ada Fuel Cell Methanol, nah itu "limbah"nya CO2 + H2O

Jauh sebelum Fuel Cell heboh utk mobil konsep, kapal selam sudah lama menggunakan teknik ini utk pembangkit daya listrik-nya.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_cell

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Re: Honda menjauhi Diesel...kenapa?

Post by inoz »

klo pengalaman ane di eropa trutama france waktu skull disana dolo
org prancis lebih senang pake mobil diesel sebab harga BBM nya lebih murah dan lagi teknologi pengilangan yg dimiliki persh minyak dah cukup bagus...
dan disana kualitas BBM dieselnya sdh bagus... jadi produsen ngikutin keinginan dan kamauan ekonomis pemakai mobil...
:big_peace:
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Re: Honda menjauhi Diesel...kenapa?

Post by GTR83 »

Diesel sepertinya lebih punya endurance sementara mesin bensin untuk power, selain itu tidak ada risiko detonation alias mesin meleduk. Cmiiwy
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Re: Honda menjauhi Diesel...kenapa?

Post by uch »

one day, dijamin semuanya akan memuja diesel. At least buat harian. Ibarat makanan, bbm diesel itu makanan padat bergizi, premium/bensin itu makanan snack yg ringan2. Enak, tapi nggak bergizi... he..he..
FortunerMan

Re: Honda menjauhi Diesel...kenapa?

Post by FortunerMan »

Turboman wrote:Di Eropa sendiri juga GDI Turbo lagi naik daun, mungkin krn pasar Clean Diesel kompetisi-nya sdh sgt ketat......juga banyak produsen mengarah ke Hybrid, seiring standard penurunan emisi CO2 oleh EU.
Mungkin juga perkembangan teknologi diesel udah mentok - gak bisa diturunin lagi CO2 nya. Dan di Amerika diesel gak laku/tidak memenuhi standar emisi. Jadi Honda mikir...yg bisa kepake di semua benua ya hybrid...someday ke full electric (zero emissions).
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Re: Honda menjauhi Diesel...kenapa?

Post by maskopat »

om FM, kalo di amrik standar emisi rendah, tapi kenapa mesin di sana gede2 banget volume silindernya? bukannya makin besar volume silinder, emisi karbon juga makin besar? dan biasanya, FC nya juga lebih boros?

btw, ane coba bandingin mesin lancer (di UK).
diesel 2.0 DID http://www.mitsubishi-cars.co.uk/lancer ... tContainer
bensin 1.8 MIVEC http://www.mitsubishi-cars.co.uk/lancer ... tContainer
semuanya manual. dan maksimum tenaga yang dihasilkan juga mirip2... 138 vs 141 bhp.
ternyata emisi carbonnya tinggi yang bensin lho. FC nya juga lebih irit diesel.
kalo dari data ini, harusnya mesin diesel (tentu saja modern diesel) lebih rendah emisi dan FC daripada bensin.
mohon pencerahan om..
:thanks:
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Re: Honda menjauhi Diesel...kenapa?

Post by FortunerMan »

Iya tapi diesel ada emisi lain...namanya soot. Di California, NY, dll banyak mobil diesel gak boleh dijual karena terlalu tinggi emisi yg satu ini. Jadinya yg paling bersih ya hybrid - apalagi kalo sumber listriknya tenaga nuklir.

Gasoline vs Diesel
http://www.grinningplanet.com/2005/04-1 ... rticle.htm

The truth about diesel
http://www.drive.com.au/Editorial/Artic ... leID=40556
Diesel produces fewer greenhouse gases than unleaded petrol but it is more dangerous to our health
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Re: Honda menjauhi Diesel...kenapa?

Post by FortunerMan »

Volkswagen nampaknya menuju kesana juga...skrg hybrid (bensin/listrik)...2013 full electric.

http://www.autoblog.com/2010/07/20/volk ... hicles-to/

Image
"The automotive industry is reinventing itself," Winterkorn continued, "and Volkswagen will be the first automaker to mass produce the electric car for everyone." VW believes that electric vehicles are the next great revolution in the automobile, and in order to achieve its goal of becoming the world's top automaker by 2018, it believes it has to dominate the EV segment.

In addition to bringing two EVs to market in the next three years, the Touareg Hybrid (shown above) is being produced, with the hybrid Golf and Jetta due later that year and the hybrid Passat following in 2012. All of which VW considers to be interim products.
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Re: Honda menjauhi Diesel...kenapa?

Post by imsus2c »

ngomongin transportasi-hybrid-diesel-amerika...

saya terbiasa naik angkutan yg bermesin hybrid-diesel dan buatan USA :big_peace:

powerplant-nya:
Diesel
Type 7FDL-8
V8 87.5L Twin-turbocharger
Ouput 2150 HP @1050 rpm
max. speed 120 Kpj
FC 2.5:1

yang penting....diesel-hybrid (diesel/listrik).... :big_peace:
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Re: Honda menjauhi Diesel...kenapa?

Post by maskopat »

mari kita tunggu i-Miev mitsu.... semoga bisa tertular ke outlander dan evolution yang pake energi listrik.. :e-pray:
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Re: Honda menjauhi Diesel...kenapa?

Post by esh »

IMO teknologi hybrid lebih long-term daripada teknologi diesel dilihat dari sumber energinya. Teknologi hybrid mengarah kepada teknologi full electric. CMIIW

Btw, kapan ya pemerintah kita memberi kemudahan bea masuk bagi mobil hybrid?
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Re: Honda menjauhi Diesel...kenapa?

Post by zweifellos »

How the Smart Grid will power Electric Cars: eMobility

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nTRwVLXkMCk

sorry kalo repost dan ada unsur iklannya. :frm_salut:
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Re: Honda menjauhi Diesel...kenapa?

Post by esh »

imsus2c wrote:ngomongin transportasi-hybrid-diesel-amerika...

saya terbiasa naik angkutan yg bermesin hybrid-diesel dan buatan USA :big_peace:

powerplant-nya:
Diesel
Type 7FDL-8
V8 87.5L Twin-turbocharger
Ouput 2150 HP @1050 rpm
max. speed 120 Kpj
FC 2.5:1

yang penting....diesel-hybrid (diesel/listrik).... :big_peace:
punya PT. KAI ya meneer imsus .... :big_peace:
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Re: Honda menjauhi Diesel...kenapa?

Post by ilhami »

esh wrote:
imsus2c wrote:ngomongin transportasi-hybrid-diesel-amerika...

saya terbiasa naik angkutan yg bermesin hybrid-diesel dan buatan USA :big_peace:

powerplant-nya:
Diesel
Type 7FDL-8
V8 87.5L Twin-turbocharger
Ouput 2150 HP @1050 rpm
max. speed 120 Kpj
FC 2.5:1

yang penting....diesel-hybrid (diesel/listrik).... :big_peace:
punya PT. KAI ya meneer imsus .... :big_peace:
hmm lokomotif kok hibrid ya?
dia kan generator yg menggerakkan motor listrik aja
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Re: Honda menjauhi Diesel...kenapa?

Post by Turboman »

FortunerMan wrote:
Turboman wrote:Di Eropa sendiri juga GDI Turbo lagi naik daun, mungkin krn pasar Clean Diesel kompetisi-nya sdh sgt ketat......juga banyak produsen mengarah ke Hybrid, seiring standard penurunan emisi CO2 oleh EU.
Mungkin juga perkembangan teknologi diesel udah mentok - gak bisa diturunin lagi CO2 nya. Dan di Amerika diesel gak laku/tidak memenuhi standar emisi. Jadi Honda mikir...yg bisa kepake di semua benua ya hybrid...someday ke full electric (zero emissions).
IMHO
Kalo ane pribadi lihat sih faktor berkembangnya GDI Turbo murni masalah bisnis aja, krn pasar Diesel sudah menjurus "red ocean" sementara GDI Turbo konsep baru belom semua pabrikan bikin, juga adanya sebagian customer yg senang mobil Gasoline.

Juga di era Euro V & beyond, sistem exhaust aftertreatment Diesel menjadi sangat kompleks & mahal.

Utk emisi CO2 dgn mesin motor bakar non hybrid, Diesel tetap juaranya :
http://www.whatgreencar.com/view-car/26 ... two_cabrio

Smart fortwo Cabrio CDI dgn emisi CO2 hanya 87 gr/Km

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Re: Honda menjauhi Diesel...kenapa?

Post by Turboman »

esh wrote:IMO teknologi hybrid lebih long-term daripada teknologi diesel dilihat dari sumber energinya. Teknologi hybrid mengarah kepada teknologi full electric. CMIIW

Btw, kapan ya pemerintah kita memberi kemudahan bea masuk bagi mobil hybrid?
The Future is Full Electric vehicle & di Eropa mobil2 kecil listrik dah mulai banyak dijual

http://www.whatgreencar.com/search_database/ (klik All vehicles)

Aixam / Reva / Euauto / Smrat fortwo EV / Mitsu i-miev / MINI EV / THINK / Nissan Leaf / TESLA, etc.

Kalau saya sih berharap Pemerintah bisa berbuat lebih jauh utk memberi incentive kepada produsen dalam negeri utk membuat mobil-mobil listrik / investor yang mau membuat mobil2 listrik di Indonesia. (At least berupa Tax Holiday & peringanan pajak-pajak lainnya)

Hal ini akan mentrigger multiplier effect spt pengembangan industri Solar Panel & mini wind Turbine serta battery utk menunjang charging station.

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