efek driving di RPM rendah?

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jalu
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Re: efek driving di RPM rendah?

Post by jalu »

nanya lg meneer..

lalu bagaimana dengan mesin yg dirancang/memiliki engine management supaya rpm tidak cepat drop saat deselerasi (gliding)..apakah itu bbm sama2 diputus jg (karena masih ada momen inersia)...ataukah dikurangi secara gradual supaya turunnya rpm tidak drastis..??

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Re: efek driving di RPM rendah?

Post by maskopat »

ane coba cerahkan ya...
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Re: efek driving di RPM rendah?

Post by jalu »

masih surem...... :e-snooty:
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Re: efek driving di RPM rendah?

Post by imsus2c »

jalu wrote:nanya lg meneer..

lalu bagaimana dengan mesin yg dirancang/memiliki engine management supaya rpm tidak cepat drop saat deselerasi (gliding)..apakah itu bbm sama2 diputus jg (karena masih ada momen inersia)...ataukah dikurangi secara gradual supaya turunnya rpm tidak drastis..??

mohon dicerahkan........ :e-pray: :e-pray:
jujur, saya tidak tau pasti meneer...

yg jelas, prinsip kerja engine-brake adalah memanfaatkan induksi kevakuman di throttle (dengan catatan pedal gas dilepas...) saat pedal gas dilepas, otomatis katup udara tertutup, artinya tidak ada (atau sedikit) udara yang masuk ke throttle, mesin/piston akan bergerak melawan kevakuman ini, bukan karena kompresi dan ledakan bahan bakar

tapi saat engine brake, menurut saya, yang dikontrol adalah kondisi kevakumannya, bukan flow supply bahan bakarnya

di beberapa ECU, ada yang memutus, ada juga yang mengurangi, jadi tergantung ECU-nya juga;

contohnya, cmiiw....mobil dgn model ECU closed-loop dan CC, dimana dia harus memastikan seluruh O2 yang masuk ke ruang bakar harus terbakar habis sebelum keluar (exhaust), nah untuk proses membakar O2 ini tentunya dibutuhkan bahan bakar... :D

justru mobil dgn ECU open-loop dan tanpa CC (alias mesin injeksi generasi awal) yang kemungkinan besar dalam kondisi engine-brake ini, dia malah akan memutuskan supply bahan bakar


cmiiw.... :D
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Re: efek driving di RPM rendah?

Post by gmx »

imho, saya setuju bahaya kalo tanpa engine brake supaya ngga kehilangan control terhadap putaran roda. Di mobil saya kalo gas dilepas rpm ngga langsung turun, mungkin karena engine brake sangat diperlukan oleh mobil2 offroad terutama saat downhill
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Re: efek driving di RPM rendah?

Post by DOHC »

kalo di lipina ane mahh gt lepas gas, rpm turun nya perlahan2..
numpang lewat aja.... :ngacir: :ngacir:
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Re: efek driving di RPM rendah?

Post by imsus2c »

gmx wrote:imho, saya setuju bahaya kalo tanpa engine brake supaya ngga kehilangan control terhadap putaran roda. Di mobil saya kalo gas dilepas rpm ngga langsung turun, mungkin karena engine brake sangat diperlukan oleh mobil2 offroad terutama saat downhill
berguna juga saat downshifting waktu nanjak....

putaran mesin masih di jangakauan torsi, tidak langsung ngedrop
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Re: efek driving di RPM rendah?

Post by imsus2c »

DOHC wrote:kalo di lipina ane mahh gt lepas gas, rpm turun nya perlahan2..
nah ketauan kan... :D
DOHC wrote:bukanya kaga ada om, tapi kaya kaga berasa.... turunan parkir mall aja ane masuk gigi 2 tapi mobil tetep meluncur kenceng koq... kalo matic ane kaga ngerti dahh... tapi kalo yg manual, ini mobil gampang banget ngeglosor nya...
turunnya rpm memang dipikin pelan dan ga langsung membebani putaran roda...

salah satu fungsinya ya mengoptimalkan kinerja saat gliding :D

coba bandingkan sama kijang kapsul/panther, begitu gas dilepas, rpm ngedrop cepet banget :D
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Re: efek driving di RPM rendah?

Post by ilhami »

om,
kalau ketika engine brake supply bahan bakar ditutup, atau katup masukan ditutup
ntar kasusnya seperti ndorong mobil mogok donk. Jadi berat banget gitu... apa nggak rusak mesinnya tuh?
Bukannya cuma supply bbm dibuat sangat lean (miskin), mesin menyala, tapi tidak bertenaga. :ungg:
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Re: efek driving di RPM rendah?

Post by DOHC »

kalo yg perna diajarin ama montir sehh katanya enjin brek itu memanfaatkan gear yg lebi rendah utk mengerem, sama aja kaya kalo kita ngayuh speda pas lg kenceng2 ngayuh, trus ganti ke gear rendah, otomatis lgs drop kan speed nya...
numpang lewat aja.... :ngacir: :ngacir:
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Re: efek driving di RPM rendah?

Post by ilhami »

kalau sepeda mau gigi berapa aja gak ada engine break om.... dia kan loss aja gitu. :big_peace:
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Re: efek driving di RPM rendah?

Post by doq »

salut bener dah sama rekan2 SM yg uda bsa ngerapin eco driving utk berkendaraan sehari2 :frm_salut: :ungg:
saya sendiri ngerasain betapa beratnya "jagain" kaki kanan biar rpm selalu di area eco-drive, yg ada begitu jalan lowong dikit langsung "nebus" sampe ntu jarum manteng keatas :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
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Re: efek driving di RPM rendah?

Post by gmx »

pake eco drive malah agak sulit engine brake, karena pake gigi paling tinggi, saat gas dilepas, mobil masih ngeloyor aja
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Re: efek driving di RPM rendah?

Post by maskopat »

gmx wrote:pake eco drive malah agak sulit engine brake, karena pake gigi paling tinggi, saat gas dilepas, mobil masih ngeloyor aja
maksudnya gini om, dengan teknologi mesin sekarang, kalo pas turunan, coba oper ke gigi yang lebih rendah. jadi ada engine break (tetap aman) dan relatif sedikit (atau mungkin tidak ada) BBM yang mengalir ke ruang bakar.
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Re: efek driving di RPM rendah?

Post by m rakha »

setuju, driving style sangan mempengaruhi konsumsi FC dan umur mesin
pengalaman saya jangan menghentak gas secara tiba-tiba (bisa kaget tun bensin) pijat lah pelan pelan dengan perasaan
biarkan putaran/percepatan naik dengan sendirinya, hasilnya si bensin relax tuh... abis dipijat... apalagi kalo pijat plus (pake pertamax plus maksudnya)
sesekali intalian tuneup penting tuh, carbon/engine cleaner juga boleh, tapi kalo saya gak mau sering sering
takut ngerusak seal/packing di dalam mesin, xixixi...lagi bokek nih....
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Re: efek driving di RPM rendah?

Post by gmx »

karbon clean bisa ada efek ngerusak paking mesin jg ya? Mending italian tune up dong, tinggal beli bensin trus gaspol, lebih fun juga

Belakangan ini ecodrive rada kacau nih, mampang macetnya gila bener
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Re: efek driving di RPM rendah?

Post by imsus2c »

ilhami wrote:om,
kalau ketika engine brake supply bahan bakar ditutup, atau katup masukan ditutup
ntar kasusnya seperti ndorong mobil mogok donk. Jadi berat banget gitu... apa nggak rusak mesinnya tuh?
Bukannya cuma supply bbm dibuat sangat lean (miskin), mesin menyala, tapi tidak bertenaga. :ungg:
meneer...

yang dimaksud engine brake/lepas gas disini untuk gliding alias eco-driving... begitu mesin terasa berat/rpm ngedrop dibawah range torsi alias mendekati stasioner... ya pedal gas musti diinjak lagi...gitu loh...

makanya, teknik nyetir gini, dibilang pulse & glide...

kalo kaki kanannya lulus pulse+glide ini, diharapkan konsumsi bbm membaik (ecodriving) dan mesinnya pun relatif tidak bermasalah...

untuk gliding ini, seperti saya tulis diatas, ada beberapa ECU (mobil injeksi) yg memerintahkan stop/cut bahan bakar (dgn syarat giginya masuk/engaged)...namun ada juga yang lean... tergantung settingan engineer-nya :D
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Re: efek driving di RPM rendah?

Post by imsus2c »

gmx wrote:karbon clean bisa ada efek ngerusak paking mesin jg ya? Mending italian tune up dong, tinggal beli bensin trus gaspol, lebih fun juga

Belakangan ini ecodrive rada kacau nih, mampang macetnya gila bener
rasanya kalau packing cyl-head engga deh...

tapi kalo untuk seal (piston) sepertinya iya (jika keseringan)
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Re: efek driving di RPM rendah?

Post by imsus2c »

maskopat wrote:
gmx wrote:pake eco drive malah agak sulit engine brake, karena pake gigi paling tinggi, saat gas dilepas, mobil masih ngeloyor aja
maksudnya gini om, dengan teknologi mesin sekarang, kalo pas turunan, coba oper ke gigi yang lebih rendah. jadi ada engine break (tetap aman) dan relatif sedikit (atau mungkin tidak ada) BBM yang mengalir ke ruang bakar.
cmiiw..
betull... turunin bertahap giginya...

kalau drastis, bisa ngerusak mesin (apalagi yg belum dilengkapi rpm limiter), ini yang disebut "over-revving"
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Re: efek driving di RPM rendah?

Post by imsus2c »

ada website bagus mengenai korelasi rpm-kecepatan mobil-gear ratio (gear ratio calculator)

syaratnya:
- harus tahu ukuran ban kita
- perbandingan gigi tranmisi mobil kita
- rasio gigi akhir mobil kita

http://www.grimmjeeper.com/metric_gears.html
http://www.fatboyraceworks.com/gears/
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Re: efek driving di RPM rendah?

Post by DOHC »

menner, kalo angka yg kluar dari hasil penghitungan website tsb apa bener sama ama kemampuan mobil kita... soalnya kalo ane itung2, ferio ane dulu top speed nya masa bisa diatas 250 kph... kalah jauh ama lipina ane yg cuman 199 kph doank....
numpang lewat aja.... :ngacir: :ngacir:
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Re: efek driving di RPM rendah?

Post by imsus2c »

DOHC wrote:menner, kalo angka yg kluar dari hasil penghitungan website tsb apa bener sama ama kemampuan mobil kita... soalnya kalo ane itung2, ferio ane dulu top speed nya masa bisa diatas 250 kph... kalah jauh ama lipina ane yg cuman 199 kph doank....
selama angka yang ditaruh disitu betul...saya yakin betul... :D

makanya harus tahu persis perbandingan gigi dan rasio gigi akhir.. nah yang ini biasanya jarang dikasih tau sama pabrikan mobil

pastikan angka-angka ini dulu... :D
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Re: efek driving di RPM rendah?

Post by DOHC »

memangnya angka sperti brapa horsepower atau torsi mobil kaga diitung lg menner... :e-think: :e-think:
numpang lewat aja.... :ngacir: :ngacir:
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Re: efek driving di RPM rendah?

Post by imsus2c »

DOHC wrote:memangnya angka sperti brapa horsepower atau torsi mobil kaga diitung lg menner... :e-think: :e-think:
kasus ini, sama sekali tidak.... :D

hanya korelasi rpm + rasio gigi + ukuran ban + kecepatan

torsi dan tenaga tidak ada hubungannya....

contohnya, lokomotif yang bermesin diesel V8 dengan output 2150 HP, kecepatan maksimumnya cuma sekitar 120 Kpj, ya itu karena faktor diatas tadi (rpm-roda-rasio gigi)...
kalau mesin ini dipasang di mobil dgn rasio gigi halus (sedan misalnya), kecepatannya bisa tembus 300-400kpj, itu dengan output power dan torsi yang sama :D

makanya, saya kadang sering geli, kalau baca-baca di forum, ada yg punya sedan, bilang gigi 3 bisa lari 100-120 kpj... ya ga heran lah...wong rasio giginya memang dirancang normalnya seperti itu :D


sedangkan korelasinya dengan tenaga/torsi mesin adalah:
sanggupkah mesin itu mencapai rpm tertentu di gigi tertentu? dan seberapa cepatkah dia mampu mencapai rpm tersebut di gigi itu?
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Re: efek driving di RPM rendah?

Post by DOHC »

ohh jadi angka2 yg kluar dari kalkulasi tsb lah yg menunjukan benchmark sberapa kenceng lari mobil kita yah mnner.. sdgkan HP dan torsi cuman nunjukin sberapa cepet kah kemampuan mobil kita utk mencapai top speed tsb...

btw ternyata all new jazz lari nya mirip2 ama lipina 1500cc... bahkan lari nya mesin 1500cc nya ANJ tersebut kalahhh jauhh dgn mesin 1500cc nya jaman city Z.... top speed nya ANJ cuman mentok di 199 kph, sama ama lipina... sdgkan city Z aja gigi 4 nya mentok di 215, gigi 5 melonjak ke 262 kph.... emang honda jadul mengerikan.. :big_smoking: :big_smoking:

jadi penasaran pengen itung eterna punya top speed....
numpang lewat aja.... :ngacir: :ngacir: