Before U say " I DO " to hybrids

[Sithlord]

OK. Looks like a LOT of people here inggin segera beli hybrid. Yakin itu hybrid adalah solusi terbaik.

OK ! First I will like to remind our Jedi once more. U insist hybrid itu sekarang harganya sudah ngak gitu mahal. Nah I want to ask U one more time :

Kenapa Toyota Ist 1800 cc harganya cuman 200+ juta, harga Prius 1500 cc malah 450 juta ? IU mau untung besar ? Think again ! Prius mobil kecil harga 300+ juta saja belum tentu ramai, apalagi 450 juta ! The IU's have no choice soalnya saat ini hybrid memang MAHALnya ngak ketolonggan !

Apakah IUs so stupid ! Apakah mereka tidak sadar, margin super besar percuma jika ngak ada orang yang beli !

Di USA, harga Prius bisa cuman 200+ juta soalnya banyak bantuan US government. Nah, sekarang di Indo ngak ada siapa yang bantuin. Baru deh ketahuan the TRUE COLORS of hybrids ! They cost a BOMB !

Jika hybrid sudah harganya wajar, KENAPA TAM sampai sekarang masih ketakutan, ngak mau masukin hybrid ke Indo ? Jangan bilang capacity tidak cukup. Thats bull [cencored] ! Toyota have billions of dollars of cash in their hands ! Tinggal keluar berapa ratusan juta maximum, apakah masih kurang duit untuk jual hybrid di sini ? What are they waiting for ?

If U have billions of dollars today and say all SMers now want to buy from U lots of Conan series comics, will U say " Sorry, not enough money to expand printing capacity ! " And the Prius have been around for years ! Still not enough time and capacity ?

Now, saya bukan pemilik hybrid, jadi saya juga sudah ngak mau ngotot. Sekarang saya akan cari info dari America, soalnya orang Amriklah yang pengalaman pakai mobil hybrid. So let their experience educate us.

Here are some links, hybrid buyers, and calon IU yang inggin invest banyak uang untuk jual hybrid di sini, pls read study the American experience before U say " I DO " to hybrids :

http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct ... del=Hybrid

This is a website link to BIG forums in edmunds.com. Sangat ramai discusinya di situ ! Bikin SM jadi kecil !

Here are some samples of user experience with hybrids, memang ngak semua rewel, tapi it gives U an idea of what to expect when things go wrong ! :

My sister's 01 Prius suddenly quit on her while she was driving on the freeway 2 weeks ago. The momentum made her safely glide to a stop on the side of the freeway. It just wouldn't move and had to be towed to a Toyota dealer. Two weeks later, the car was finally fixed.

The bill showed that the Hybrid ECU, Inverter, and the Transaxle had to be replace for a total cost of over $15,000. The basic warranty had exprired but all of these components were covered under the hybrid warranty of 8 years or 96000 miles. The dealer also provided her with a free service car while the Prius was being repaired. Her out-of-pocket expenses, zero dollars.

Nanti TAM atau IU berani kah kasih warranty 8 tahun ?

I purchased my 04 Prius and just love it... I had an one odd event happen to me and maybe somebody can shed some light on this.. Toyota is stumped. I have about 5K on the milage and as I was pulling off the freeway and slowed to a stop light the car hit the warning lights red excalmation CHECK ENGINE SVC everything went on. Bottom line.. No Gas or gas engine was not responding.

I hobbled it back to Toyota under electric power where it went dead about 100 ft from Toyota in Santa Cruz. They got it checked out but had no explanation why it acted that way. Their first question was did I run out of gas? ...Tank was 1/2 full. My only thinking (and this is pure speculation.. is I was right across the street from a Catscan medical center when it happened. Is it possible that I got a dose of EMF waves that hit the car and zapped the computer into thinking I was out of gas? Has this sudden loss of gas engine power happened to anyone else.. Like I said Toyota is stumped.

My 2004 Prius (19,000 miles) has always had a problem when the gas tank is filled. Whenever a sealed pump nozzle is used it continually shuts off after taking about 0.1 gallon or less, while the gar gauge then registers full! I've found that by getting a nozzle which doesn't have the rubber sealing flap I can position it so that air can flow out of the tank as I'm filling. However, it frequently then regurgitates gasoline when it seems to be getting full, but the level subsides if left for a minute or two, and more gas can be added.

The local dealer said this was also a problem with some of the Toyota pickups, and that probably it would be fixed one day. In the meantime I'm smelling pretty much of gas and polluting the area around the car. I've also never been able to get more than 7 gallons into it, even though the gauge says empty. Does anyone else have this problem, or have any thoughts on it?

I just purchased a 2005 Prius. My husband drove it for less than 200 miles in less than 24 hours after driving off the lot. After work the following day, he attempted to start the car, and got nothing. I also attempted to start the car with my fob; also nothing - dead, dead, dead. We had it towed to the nearest dealer, who has had our car for several days. Latest news is that four of eleven engine computers are not talking to a scanner - three associated with starting the engine and one associated with a fuel pump.

Could anyone tell me how much of this is BS and if these guys know what they're talking about? I see that this is not news to many of you. Thanks!

We have a 2001 Prius with almost 92,000 miles (we drive alot!). We have had 2 computers replaced ( under warranty) and in Sept. 04 we paid $600.00 to replace a faulty accelerator sensor. Just this past weekend we were on vacation and our engine light came on. A Toyota dealer in Chico,CA., said our catalytic converter was going out and it would cost $2,100.00 to replace. Although we love our car we are becoming very concerned about future, expensive repairs. Does anyone have any recommendations for us? Has anyone had any luck getting Toyota to pay for something that is out of warranty? Reportedly, the converter is covered for 8 years or 80,000 miles

Would you like me to name the posters that have questioned the reliability of the hybrids? I can research that for you. My reference is to this person that has already found that the hybrid is expensive to own after the warranty is gone. Do you you consider these charges fair on a 3 year old vehicle? A $600 sensor & $2100 catalytic convertor. I just replaced the catalytic convertor on our 1990 Mazda 626, along with the muffler and tail pipe, and the total was $154 with a lifetime warranty. We have spent less than $2100 on that Mazda over 15 years including brakes, batteries & tires. I'll tell you what I tell all the leading edge hybrid explorers "Good Luck" your going to need it.

[Sithlord]

IKLAN ........

Continue :

I was driving home last week in my 04 Prius, watching the mpg reading creep up to 48.0, when I stopped at a stop sign. Immediately after starting up, my dashboard lit up with multiple failure warnings, including "VSC", the red triangle around an exclamation point, a yellow circle with exclamation point, etc. The car continued forward, but just on battery power. Since I was only 2 miles from home I decided to continue, and made it into my driveway by coasting the last 1/2 mile.

The car then stopped and would not move forward. I turned it off and read some of the manual. After a few minutes, I pressed the "ON" button and this time the gas engine started, although the mass of warning lights stayed on. I got the car into the garage, where I left it running to charge the battery (garage door open of course). While I called Toyota, the car stopped.

After having it towed on a flatbed to Toyota the next day, the car was fixed by reprogramming the ECM (engine control module). So far there is no explanation from Toyota for the failure, I'm trying to work my way up to someone who actually knows something about the computers. My confidence in this car, and Toyota, was badly shaken by this incident.
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The problem here is that there was a software error in the Prius. What most people do not realize is that it probably wasn't fixed by the dealer.

What happened: The Prius in question hit a point in the software code that caused the whole program to crash.

How it was overcome: The Toyota dealer installed the same program back into the car. There is no way that Toyota made a program modification and then put it back into the car.

This means that the Prius will fail again if those exact circumstance occur again. It also means that every Prius with that same software version may fail in the same fashion

There are only a couple of possibilities here:
1. Toyota already had a fix for the problem, and hadn't installed it in all cars. Possible, but unlikely.
2. Toyota simply put the old code back into the vehicle and hoped for the best. Probable.

Hopefully, Toyota at least had the smarts to download the entire memory contents (or enough code to troubleshoot the problem). A simple error code is not usually enough to determine why the code failed, only where it failed.

I find this troubling because the basic HSD technology and programming is now about 7 years old. It should not be hitting failure points like this.

[Sithlord]

Ah ! sudah cukup panjang. Yang belum puas, silahkan baca sendiri.

My point is, memang Toyota terkenal bikin mobil awet, TAPI ini hybrid seperti anda nikahi 2 istri !

1 istri saja kadang sudah pusing. Nah hybrid itu seperti anda punya 2 istri. Kalau 2nya lagi " ciong ", pusing !

So my advice, get a hybrid if U want. Cuman, like the guy who wants to have 2 wives, U better have QUITE A LOT of MONEY !

Cause hybrid kalau lagi rewel, urusannya beda ama mobil mesin biasa saat lagi rusak. Hybrid itu adalah new technology yang sangat COMPLEX !

Di USA untung warrantynya lama. Di Indo apakah bisa segitu lama ? Lihat BMW. Mereka terkenal agak rewel soalnya banyak electronics and computer. Nah ! Ini hybrid electronic dan computernya lebih banyak dan rumit !

Kalau orang yang benar mau irit dan tolong minyak dunia, beli saja mobil macam Honda Jazz yang juga irit banget, dan track record mesinnya yang conventional sudah terbukti, sudah teruji. Murah lagi ! Ngak PUSING !

Tapi look at Indonesians ! Like all people around the world, people buy cars NOT just to save the planet. Kenapa innova yang lebih boros masih jauh lebih laku dari Jazz yang terkenal irit ?

If the Jazz can't even outsell the boros innova, do U think this hybrid can shine ?

Don't make things so simple !

[Sithlord]

Mau tau kasus di Amrik Lexus Rx400h ? Ini ada saksi. Masih murah kan mobilnya ? Bukti lagi mobil hybrid masih belum stabil. Kalau mesin biasa rusak paling bocor, atau getar, simple stuff. Now look at these cases :

http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct ... ef79a0d/10

Anyone out there looking to purchase a 400h watch out. I typically love buying a new car, but this one has been a nightmare. Living in New Jersey, driving in various conditions, I have not seen anywhere close to the estimate 27/31 mpg. Having over 3,500 miles on mine, the best reported mileage is 24.4 mpg, worst 22.4. The Lexus service technicians have been informed that the cars will not get the stated gas mileage on the sticker. I was told my 24 mpg was "good" and I shouldn't expect any more then that.

Funny how the CEO of Toyota reported in the NY Times that the car gets closer to 30 mpg. After test driving the car I was told all of the clicks and jerks the transmission and engine makes will go away after the car breaks in. That is far from the truth. I had an experience in a parking lot when I had my foot on the brake, in Drive, when the gas engine kicked in and the car lurched forward. I was no more then two inches from hitting the car in front of me. An experience i was not prepared for.

My local dealer has run tests on the vehicle and it is performing "fine." I contacted Lexus customer service and they told me the car was fine and they were standing behind the dealer and that they are the normal traits of this type of vehicle. I highly suggest you test drive one before you buy. I have friends that get the same gas mileage, faster acceleration, and superior customer service from BMW. Did Lexus forgo the Passionate Pursuit of Perfection in favor of a marketing scam or am I expecting to much out of a $50K SUV?

I can assure you that my experience with the 400h is not a bad dream as I regret my purchase more every day. I have driven my 400h in weather ranging from 50 to 100 degree with no difference. I drove it 1000 miles to Canada and back and got 24.8 mpg round trip. Not sure where you got your "facts" from, but according to Lexus the engine can start at any point in time when the cars needs it, even when your foot is on the break. In my case the battery was 6 bars. Lexus customer service reports that when the AC is running, the added torque to run the secondary alternator motor can cause this lurch. Although your theories may be correct, they are not coconsistentith what Lexus reports. Do you want to trade cars ?



I just read your post by suring over from the Highlander Hybrid board.

You are not in error when you reported unexpected acceleration when the ICE kicked in...

I experienced a very similiar situation when I prepared for a right hand turn from a fast moving highway.

as I proceeded to turn into the sidestreet the ICE kicked in and the vehicle 'lurched' forward directly towards another vehicle which was in the intersection waiting to turn onto the highway.

I slammed on the brakes, thereby initiating a shutdown of the ICE and swerved to the right.

I definetely think there is a problem here that Toyota NEEDS TO ADDRESS !!!
BTW my mileage has also been poor with 26 mpg on the forst tank...did the dealer put something in the tank ????? to 24.3 to 23.2mpg.....hell, my 1990 4 runner with a 3.0 V6 got consistent 22 mpg.

Fellow Hybid Types, lets not sweep this problem under the carpet.
Sorry to those of you who paid close to 50K for a vehicle that does not perform as advertised, as I have for close to 40K....

Hi gunner:

I've just put my $500 deposit down to reserve an RX400h with my local Lexus dealer last weekend. Since then, I've heard a lot of negative utterances from 400h owners who are getting unsatisfactory mileage, some as low as the low 20s.

Now I have to decide what to do. Take back my $500 and start all over again?? The Prius, which I rented was nice, but had ZERO acceleration and no luxery or size. I did not consider it safe on a 65 mph hwy.

I've also heard of some owners getting in the upper 20s - like 28+.

What's really going on here? Any thoughts?

Wah ! Kalau toyota masa depan bisa perbaiki dan bikin lebih stabil hybrid mereka, fair and good.

Tapi kalau dalam waktu say 10 tahun lagi masih belum stabil, imagine, mereka sudah jual 1 juta lebih hybrid, warranty banyak yang sudah habis.

And imagine hundereds of thousands of hybrids yang makin tua mulai makin rewel ! Semua jerit jerit ! Apakah ngak pusing nanti Toyota ?

[Sithlord]

Bung Herry, Anda boleh memperbesar your Avatar girl :

BEWARE !

[Sithlord]

http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct ... ef64fbc/80

My wife and I bought a new Prius in early March of 2005. My wife was coasting to stop (around 5 MPH) for a stop sign and when she put her foot on the brake the car started to accelerate. She came to a stop after hitting another car head on. Before she hit the car (she also sideswiped another car) she was able to look at her feet to confirm that she was indeed pressing on the brake pedal.

We have contacted the Dealer and Toyota Product Liability and have been given a case number. We were told the inspection alone can take up to 30 days (it has been 3 weeks since the brake failure incident) and have had to rent a car at our expense to get us through. We live in Los Angeles and like all Prius owners, we were thrilled when we took delivery of the car. We will also notify the NHTSA about this.

I had a similar problem with my Toyota Prius 04 (14250 miles) yesterday.
I was driving on a Freeway (not fast just about 50mph) and all of a sudden all the warning lights came on (red exclamation mark in a triangle , engine failure with exclamation mark, another exclamation mark in a circle and some other scary signs).

I immediately pulled over on the shoulder of the highway, and stopped the car. There was also only one bar left for the battery( again in scary red color).I checked the owner's manual to make sense out of those signs and it said "DO NOT drive and contact your Toyota Dealer immediately", so I did.

The car was towed to the Toyota dealer and the Dealer had it for a day. The dealer had it checked and told me that the software needed to be upgraded. He told me that Toyota was aware of the problem and the upgrade was already out. I think It is a very serious problem. Now I was searching on the internet for more information on this Prius software problem, I found that there are many incidents of this type where all of a sudden the software crashes.

Thanks for the information about NHTSA, I already reported the problem.

[mpoezz]

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