efek driving di RPM rendah?

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Re: efek driving di RPM rendah?

Post by jalu »

DOHC wrote:emang honda jadul mengerikan.. :big_smoking: :big_smoking:
like this.... :frm_tumbright:
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Re: efek driving di RPM rendah?

Post by DOHC »

sial, tau gini dulu ntuh honda jadul kaga ane jual... :frm_bang_head: :frm_bang_head: :frm_bang_head:
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Re: efek driving di RPM rendah?

Post by jalu »

DOHC wrote:sial, tau gini dulu ntuh honda jadul kaga ane jual... :frm_bang_head: :frm_bang_head: :frm_bang_head:
saya suka sedan honda.....tapi honda lama khususnya 1990 - 2000..... :cupss:
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Re: efek driving di RPM rendah?

Post by imsus2c »

^^^

lah...ini malah mulai membahas "efek driving di RPM tinggi?"

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Re: efek driving di RPM rendah?

Post by imsus2c »

DOHC wrote:ohh jadi angka2 yg kluar dari kalkulasi tsb lah yg menunjukan benchmark sberapa kenceng lari mobil kita yah mnner.. sdgkan HP dan torsi cuman nunjukin sberapa cepet kah kemampuan mobil kita utk mencapai top speed tsb...

btw ternyata all new jazz lari nya mirip2 ama lipina 1500cc... bahkan lari nya mesin 1500cc nya ANJ tersebut kalahhh jauhh dgn mesin 1500cc nya jaman city Z.... top speed nya ANJ cuman mentok di 199 kph, sama ama lipina... sdgkan city Z aja gigi 4 nya mentok di 215, gigi 5 melonjak ke 262 kph.... emang honda jadul mengerikan.. :big_smoking: :big_smoking:

jadi penasaran pengen itung eterna punya top speed....
tambahan bacaan, bagaimana truk caterpillar C-12 dgn daya 430 HP, dibanding sedan Ford Mustang Cobra berdaya 437 HP, 2 kendaraan dgn daya yang dikatakan sama, tapi speed-nya berbeda... ya karena salah satunya di rasio gigi...
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/auto-part ... /fpte5.htm
http://www.howstuffworks.com/gear-ratio.htm
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Re: efek driving di RPM rendah?

Post by DOHC »

imsus2c wrote:^^^

lah...ini malah mulai membahas "efek driving di RPM tinggi?"

weleh2....tar dimarahi om TS :e-whistle:
maklum menner, lagi bernostalgia ama nikmat nya sentakan mesin vtec murni yg khas di putaran atas... apalagi dgn ratio gigi yg mumpuni dan mesin yg mendukung, ga heran mesin2 honda jadul yg cc nya dibawah 1800 aja tapi top speed nya ganas2...
numpang lewat aja.... :ngacir: :ngacir:
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Re: efek driving di RPM rendah?

Post by maskopat »

om dohc, jadi secara tidak langsung, pernyataan ente menyatakan bahwa mobil honda sekarang kurang nikmat untuk bermain di putaran tinggi? :e-think:
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Re: efek driving di RPM rendah?

Post by DOHC »

bukan ga langsung lagi om... tapi scara langsung itu... tapi yg ane rasain sehh utk mesin2 honda yg cc nya masi kecil yahh.. kaya di jazz gt... uda ilang ciri khas lecutan vtec di putaran tinggi nya...

tapi kalo di all new civic sehh lari nya tetep ganas, tapi kayanya jg karakter tarikan nya ane rasain jadi lebi "halus" gt... walaupun utk tarikan atas tetep nendang...
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Re: efek driving di RPM rendah?

Post by Dino_lowrider »

GAN. Ada 1 yang terlupa dan ini sangat penting. Ada yang menganggap bahwa dengan rpm rendah dan gigi tinggi membuat mesin lebih awet.
Hal ini tidak benar. usahakan menggunakan gigi persnelling dan rpm yang sesuai. apalagi sampai terjadi knocking atau mobil tersendat2.

hal ini menandakan bahwa torsi yg dihasilkan engine kurang memadai.
akibatnya dalam waktu panjang akan merusak piston dan liner silinder. dalam istilah pebengkel mempercepat silinder menjadi NGGENTHONG.

artinya keausan terjadi pada silinder bagian tengah lebih besar. kalau dilihat seperti gentong atau kendi.
sebenarnya keausan seperti ini pasti terjadi , karena tekanan lebih besar memang terjadi pada tengah silinder.
Tetapi pemakaian rpm yg terlalu rendah akan mempercepat proses tersebut.
torsi yg dihasilkan mesin masih rendah , sementara mesin harus membawa beban berat akibat persnelling yg tinggi.

ibarat kita memutar pedal sepeda balap dengan memakai gigi tinggi sementara rpm rendah. terasa linu pada kaki kita. demikian pula yg terjadi pada engine.tekanan besar terjadi pada piston , stang , pin , silinder dan laiinnya.

jadi menurut ane , pakai rpm yg biasa. nggak terlalu rendah juga terlalu tinggi. ane biasa memakai rpm diatas 2000 dan pindah gigi pd rpm 3500 pada kondisi dalam kota.
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Re: efek driving di RPM rendah?

Post by aldy »

DOHC wrote:bukan ga langsung lagi om... tapi scara langsung itu... tapi yg ane rasain sehh utk mesin2 honda yg cc nya masi kecil yahh.. kaya di jazz gt... uda ilang ciri khas lecutan vtec di putaran tinggi nya...

tapi kalo di all new civic sehh lari nya tetep ganas, tapi kayanya jg karakter tarikan nya ane rasain jadi lebi "halus" gt... walaupun utk tarikan atas tetep nendang...
Coba honda yang mesinnya dobel klep bro (alias DOHC) RPM atas kagak nendang lagi bro bikin ketagihan (kayak di avatar ane)..he2 numpang OOT :ngacir: :ngacir:
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Re: efek driving di RPM rendah?

Post by aldy »

DOHC wrote:ohh jadi angka2 yg kluar dari kalkulasi tsb lah yg menunjukan benchmark sberapa kenceng lari mobil kita yah mnner.. sdgkan HP dan torsi cuman nunjukin sberapa cepet kah kemampuan mobil kita utk mencapai top speed tsb...

btw ternyata all new jazz lari nya mirip2 ama lipina 1500cc... bahkan lari nya mesin 1500cc nya ANJ tersebut kalahhh jauhh dgn mesin 1500cc nya jaman city Z.... top speed nya ANJ cuman mentok di 199 kph, sama ama lipina... sdgkan city Z aja gigi 4 nya mentok di 215, gigi 5 melonjak ke 262 kph.... emang honda jadul mengerikan.. :big_smoking: :big_smoking:

jadi penasaran pengen itung eterna punya top speed....
Waduh masak sih bro gigi 5 nyampe 262 kagak mungkin deh bro..he2 :mrgreen: :mrgreen: civic type R aja top speed cuma 240km/h..Mungkin udah ganti transmisi itu + engine SWAP.. :e-think: :e-think:
Setau ane city type Z top speednya sekitar 215km/h lah gigi 5 (standard)..Kenapa kok bisa setinggi ini power to weight ratio berbicara..Lha wong berat city type Z cuma 950kg..Dikawinkan ama mesin yg emang legendaris power 115 Hp ya larinya kenceng + suspensi independent di ke 4 roda.. :frm_tumbright: :frm_tumbright: ..Konon katanya kalo ganti head yg type P08 (ane lupa pastinya) power naik sekitar 130Hp busyeet dah siap2 tuh jadi jagoan di jalan tol.. :big_peace: :big_peace: OOT maning :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :ngacir: :ngacir:

@DOHC udah bro bungkus satu Type Z nya terus ganti head P08 (haganya sekitar 2 jutaan).. :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
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Re: efek driving di RPM rendah?

Post by DOHC »

bener bro, ane itung2 berdasarkan website yg dikasi menner imsus, ternyata angka yg kluar 262... tapi kalo berdasar buku manual nya sehh ternyata emang mirip2 tuh dgn kalkulasi website tsb.. lah wong gigi 3 ditulis bisa 160 kph, trus gigi 4 dan gigi 5 tulisan nya kecepatan tertinggi...


btw emang lg ada rencana mo gt bro, sayang blm ada dana, tapi nanti kalo ada seh, itu emang uda target ane dari dulu... ganti head, ganti muffler ama manifold, coil di upgrade, pake busi iridium, open air filter, suspensi depan blakang turun 3 jari... raja jalan tol dah kalo gt.... :big_weee: :big_weee: :big_weee:
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Re: efek driving di RPM rendah?

Post by aldy »

Nah kalo gitu jangan kaget bro kalo njezz n freed matic gigi 4 aja bisa 225km/h tapi itu cuma perhitungan teoritis rasio gigi aja bukan kenyataannya :big_peace: :big_peace: Belum gigi lima tuh.. Gigi 3 masuk loh 140km/h njezz ama freed.. :big_peace: :big_peace:

ini cuplikannya njezz metic..tapi impposible kalo mesin standard he2 tapi kalo udah dimodif kayaknya bisalah bro ngasepin Type Z..wong gigi 4 at 225 km/h..masih sisa gigi 5 pula.. :big_peace:

note:
Going beyond just casual driving, I was eager to try out the real performance of the Jazz i-VTEC starting of course with the performance in all-out WOT runs. Honda used very high ratios for 1st and 2nd gears. This was apparent the moment I tried my first WOT 1-2-3 gear run out of a toll-gate. Max speed in 1st gear is just 55kph and max speed in 2nd gear just over 96kph. These speeds indicate effective gear ratios higher than those in the 5MT of my DA6 ! Consequently, acceleration in 1st and 2nd gear is really good especially for a car of the Jazz i-VTEC's size and segment. This means the Jazz i-VTEC accelerates quite well right up to around 100kph. However, acceleration in the higher gears after 2nd becomes lacklustre. The effective ratio in 3rd gear drops drastically, especially when compared to the high 1st & 2nd ratios. After barely hitting 60mph (96kph) in 2nd, get into 3rd and the car will go all the way to almost 160kph (~100mph) when pushed to the red-line ! Actual speed registered on the dyno was 158kph when the tacho needle hits the rev-cut (almost 7,000rpm). This is a very big drop in ratio. By comparison, my DA6 will barely exceed 135kph at the end of the rev-range in 3rd (actual rpm = 8,300) eventhough it similarly tops out at only 99kph at the end of 2nd gear. In 4th, the theoretical max speed possible would be almost 225kph at the 7,000rpm rev-cut. Of course in practice the Jazz i-VTEC doesn't have the power to get anywhere near this kind of speed.

So kalo ga punya banyak duit buat beli mobil europe yg bisa jalan 200km/h keatas bisa dimodif tuh njezz meticnya biar tembus 200km/h keatas..he2 Bro lebih baik back to the topic deh sebelum di marahi TS.. :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :ngacir: :ngacir: :ngacir:
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Re: efek driving di RPM rendah?

Post by DOHC »

btw nehh ane kasi perbandingan gigi, final drive, ukuran ban dan redline nya city Z dehh

gigi 1 = 3.230
gigi 2 = 1.909
gigi 3 = 1.250
gigi 4 = 0.937
gigi 5 = 0.771
final drive 4.058

ukuran ban std 185/60/R14

utk redline yg tertera di tachometer sehh di 7000 rpm
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Re: efek driving di RPM rendah?

Post by DOHC »

nahh kalo itung2 dgn website yg dikasi menner imsus berarti utk kecepatan tertinggi city Z itu

gigi 1 = 63 kph
gigi 2 = 106 kph
gigi 3 = 162 kph
gigi 4 = 216 kph
gigi 5 = 262 kph

emang sehh kalo scara itung2 ratio, jazz bisa ngasepin cityZ... tapi kalo utk praktek di lapangan nya sehh ane sangsi yahh... scara berat cityZ aja cuman 970 kg, mesin 115 hp vtec murni pula... blom lagi stabilizer depan blakang dan suspensi independen depan blakang pula... scara feeling dan handling sehh kayanya lebi dapet pake cityZ daripada jazz....

arhhh i love honda jadul... :e-dance: :e-dance: :e-dance: :e-dance: ini kalo dipakein pertamax jg worth it sehh bagi ane... :upss: :upss: :upss:
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Re: efek driving di RPM rendah?

Post by imsus2c »

DOHC wrote:
DOHC wrote:btw nehh ane kasi perbandingan gigi, final drive, ukuran ban dan redline nya city Z dehh

gigi 1 = 3.230
gigi 2 = 1.909
gigi 3 = 1.250
gigi 4 = 0.937
gigi 5 = 0.771
final drive 4.058

ukuran ban std 185/60/R14

utk redline yg tertera di tachometer sehh di 7000 rpm
nahh kalo itung2 dgn website yg dikasi menner imsus berarti utk kecepatan tertinggi city Z itu


gigi 1 = 63 kph
gigi 2 = 106 kph
gigi 3 = 162 kph
gigi 4 = 216 kph
gigi 5 = 262 kph

emang sehh kalo scara itung2 ratio, jazz bisa ngasepin cityZ... tapi kalo utk praktek di lapangan nya sehh ane sangsi yahh... scara berat cityZ aja cuman 970 kg, mesin 115 hp vtec murni pula... blom lagi stabilizer depan blakang dan suspensi independen depan blakang pula... scara feeling dan handling sehh kayanya lebi dapet pake cityZ daripada jazz....

arhhh i love honda jadul... :e-dance: :e-dance: :e-dance: :e-dance: ini kalo dipakein pertamax jg worth it sehh bagi ane... :upss: :upss: :upss:
masalahnya.... dengan mesin "standard-bawaan-pabrik", apakah mampu mencapai rpm7000 di gigi terakhir (gigi 5) :upss:

rasio gigi pasti bisa dan sanggup lari segitu...tapi tenaganya belum tentu sanggup :D
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Re: efek driving di RPM rendah?

Post by maskopat »

torsi tepatnya... :big_peace:
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Re: efek driving di RPM rendah?

Post by DOHC »

emang sehh menner... kayanya kalo ampe 7000 tsb rada menyiksa mesin... tapi kalo yg ane rasain sendiri sehh jadi penumpang, perna city Z gigi 4 aja bisa nyampe 160 kph, dan itu masi bisa lebih... cuman masalah tega dan nyali doank... sbg penumpang sehh ane mulai rasa ga nyaman karena suara mesin uda masuk kenceng ke kabin, dan lagi suara2 dari luar, ban etc... entahlah kalo dari segi driver, mungkin sensasi nya berbeda kali yahh kalo uda di balik setir dan merasakan sensasi vtec jadul... :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
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Re: efek driving di RPM rendah?

Post by aldy »

Waduh bro ane pake GL 1.5 M/T gigi 4 aja bisa kok 180km/h (nyaris redline tapi).. :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
Bisa dicoba bro..he2 tapi realnya ya sekitar 170km/h kayaknya..
Makanya kalo lawan TOKINOV,IZPAN,AVXEN di tanjakkan harus satu gigi lebih rendah dari "itu" mobil biar kuat nanjak..Tapi kalo di jalan tol mereka 1 gigi lebih tinggi daripada GL untuk mencapai 180km/h he2 :big_peace: :big_peace:
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Re: efek driving di RPM rendah?

Post by imsus2c »

maskopat wrote:torsi tepatnya... :big_peace:
ehmm...tenaga (power) kali ya :ungg:

untuk topspeed, biasanya lebih butuh power...

apalagi, jika sudah lewat diatas rpm4000-4500an (mesin bensin), torsinya juga sudah ikutan "lewat" :D justru tenaganya baru muncul... :D
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Re: efek driving di RPM rendah?

Post by doq »

jalu wrote:
DOHC wrote:emang honda jadul mengerikan.. :big_smoking: :big_smoking:
like this.... :frm_tumbright:
pramuka jadul jg mengerikan :e-pray:

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Re: efek driving di RPM rendah?

Post by maskopat »

imsus2c wrote:
maskopat wrote:torsi tepatnya... :big_peace:
ehmm...tenaga (power) kali ya :ungg:

untuk topspeed, biasanya lebih butuh power...

apalagi, jika sudah lewat diatas rpm4000-4500an (mesin bensin), torsinya juga sudah ikutan "lewat" :D justru tenaganya baru muncul... :D
gini meneer imsus,
Power (HP) itu dihitung dengan formula (RPM x Torque)/5252
Torque dalam lb.ft
RPM dalam putaran per menit
5252 adalah konstanta.

jadi ada 2 yang menyebabkan power naik. pertama meninggikan RPM, ke dua menaikkan Torque. nah kalo ternyata torque di RPM tinggi tidak mencukupi untuk menambah akselerasi, top speed nya mentok.

seperti yang di bahas sebelumnya, bahwa mesin sudah "tidak mampu" untuk naik hingga 7000RPM.. makanya CityZ om DOHC mentok di 200kpj yang secara teoritis bisa hingga 260kpj.. karena mungkin di 200kpj (katakan lah di 5000RPM), torque sudah tidak mampu untuk menaikkan putaran mesin. mungkin karena gear ratio terlalu halus.

ini yang terjadi pada Corvette III, dimana top speed dihasilkan di gear 5, bukan gear 6. karena torque di gear 6 sudah tidak mampu untuk menarik kendaraan lebih kencang.. cmiiw..
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Re: efek driving di RPM rendah?

Post by zweifellos »

maskopat wrote:ini yang terjadi pada Corvette III, dimana top speed dihasilkan di gear 5, bukan gear 6. karena torque di gear 6 sudah tidak mampu untuk menarik kendaraan lebih kencang.. cmiiw..
nanya dong om. itu kalo di gigi 5 top speednya, fungsi gigi 6 apa ya om? (dalam benak saya semakin masuk ke gigi lebih tinggi, semakin tinggi speed yang didapat). :thanks:
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Re: efek driving di RPM rendah?

Post by maskopat »

zweifellos wrote:
maskopat wrote:ini yang terjadi pada Corvette III, dimana top speed dihasilkan di gear 5, bukan gear 6. karena torque di gear 6 sudah tidak mampu untuk menarik kendaraan lebih kencang.. cmiiw..
nanya dong om. itu kalo di gigi 5 top speednya, fungsi gigi 6 apa ya om? (dalam benak saya semakin masuk ke gigi lebih tinggi, semakin tinggi speed yang didapat). :thanks:
ternyata corvette ZR-1... gigi 6 katanya untuk efisiensi doang...
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Re: efek driving di RPM rendah?

Post by jalu »

maskopat ternyata pakar corvette..... :frm_salut: :frm_salut:
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