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 Post subject: Tiptronic VS Manual
PostMessage posted...: 25 Feb 2008, 00:47 
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Secara teori , apakah performance transmisi Tiptronic (manual mode) mampu mengimbangi transmisi manual murni atau masih kalah ?

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 Post subject: Re: Tiptronic VS Manual
PostMessage posted...: 25 Feb 2008, 11:18 
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cowcool wrote:
Secara teori , apakah performance transmisi Tiptronic (manual mode) mampu mengimbangi transmisi manual murni atau masih kalah ?


:mrgreen: tiptronik blom bisa untuk menandingi manual transmisi untuk high rev + engine brake...

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 Post subject: Re: Tiptronic VS Manual
PostMessage posted...: 25 Feb 2008, 11:43 
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Tiptronik torque converter, masih blm mampu.
Yg mampu mengimbangi bahkan melebihi performance m/t, Tiptronik dual-clutch (DSG).


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 Post subject: Re: Tiptronic VS Manual
PostMessage posted...: 26 Feb 2008, 11:13 
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yup tiptronik yang bener bener mampu mengimbangi manual yah cuma DSG (dipake di Vw golf dan audi...)

tapi setidaknya tiptronik lebih mumpuni ketimbang matik yang dulu....

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 Post subject: Re: Tiptronic VS Manual
PostMessage posted...: 26 Feb 2008, 11:22 
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Mobil2 sport yg dulunya & memang perlu M/T bakalan ganti pakai ini, spt Nisaan GTR juga pakai nih.
Sepertinya ini lahir dari mobil utk balapan rally WRC / DTM yah.


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 Post subject: Re: Tiptronic VS Manual
PostMessage posted...: 09 Mar 2008, 02:33 
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swap gearbox matic ke triptonic mungkin ga ya? gimana kira2?

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 Post subject: Re: Tiptronic VS Manual
PostMessage posted...: 09 Mar 2008, 16:02 
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tiptronik yg dibahas tiptronik asli ato tiptronik manipulasi ECU nih?hehehe..kalo yg manipulasi sih masi lbh responsive manual,engine brake jg lebih terasa de:)

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 Post subject: Re: Tiptronic VS Manual
PostMessage posted...: 09 Mar 2008, 17:02 
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asli lah bro... kalo custom sih, kan biasanya dari manual pasang triptonic...

nah, kalo yg saya tanya... (numpang thread...) dari matic ke triptonic... sama ga teorinya... anyone...?

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 Post subject: Re: Tiptronic VS Manual
PostMessage posted...: 09 Mar 2008, 17:20 
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Lain,
manual itu kita bener bener mengatur segalanya, sedangkan triptronic itu membuat "seakan-akan" kita bermain secara manual. Padahal ya matik.... Kalau diperhatikan, Rpm'nya nyambung terus ga pernah turun saat pergantian gigi.


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 Post subject: Re: Tiptronic VS Manual
PostMessage posted...: 09 Mar 2008, 19:20 
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bedanya apa ya triptronic biasa macem di harrier ama DSG?

nubie nih ^^

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 Post subject: Re: Tiptronic VS Manual
PostMessage posted...: 09 Mar 2008, 19:38 
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klo stream tiptronic nya termasuk yg konvensional / udah DSG yah... ???

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 Post subject: Re: Tiptronic VS Manual
PostMessage posted...: 09 Mar 2008, 23:13 
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blindzero wrote:
Lain,
manual itu kita bener bener mengatur segalanya, sedangkan triptronic itu membuat "seakan-akan" kita bermain secara manual. Padahal ya matik.... Kalau diperhatikan, Rpm'nya nyambung terus ga pernah turun saat pergantian gigi.


nah... maksud saya, matic dijadiin triptonic mungkin ga? :D

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 Post subject: Re: Tiptronic VS Manual
PostMessage posted...: 10 Mar 2008, 10:05 
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Tiptronic itu sistem pemindah posisi gigi pada a/t yg memungkinkan intervensi pemindahan secara manual (sekuensial) oleh user; baik pada DSG, a/t konvensional (wetclutch & TorqueConverter =T/C), maupun pd CVT.
DSG itu kalo ga salah dual-clutch sistem: utk gigi(& clutch) ganjil & gigi(& clutch) genap, makanya hampir pasti jumlah gigi DSG adalah genap alias 6 speed.
Sistem Clutch nya = Dry layaknya m/t tapi mekanis clutch engagementnya diatur otomatis (elektronis-hidrolis).
Saat posisi gigi ganjil, mekanis2 posisi gigi(& jg clutch) genap sudah dlm posisi "100% siap" utk dioperasikan, begitu juga kalo saat genap, ganjil trus sambung menyambung.
Makanya pemindahan gigi dapat berlangsung jauh lebih singkat dprd a/t (T/C). saat ini sekitar 80to60ms.

@poetic:
Sepertinya hampir ga mungkin yah, nah tapi ini hal menarik.
Yg paling mungkin (kalo mungkin), itu mandatory yg a/t dgn Electronic -controlled krn ada pengaturan posisi gear by ECU, seperti ECT-S / gradelogic / activematic, dst.
Paling tidak, pada ECTnya sepertinya perlu ini:
1. Port komunikasi => port utk menerima command(=as input pd ECT) pemindah posisi gigi, utk aplikasi switch (user interface) di stir.
2. Feature override safety pd ECT, spt pada tiptronic bawaan, ada fungsi "override" jika terjadi salah command posisi gigi accidentally, misalnya : saat start tapi tidak di posisi gigi1; hal2 yg mengakibatkan overrev rpm; mencegah salah posisi gigi tinggi pada rpm terlalu rendah.


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 Post subject: Re: Tiptronic VS Manual
PostMessage posted...: 10 Mar 2008, 12:35 
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Teknologi DSG ud lama dipake di mobil F1 & WRC...

Jadi klo mau transmisi yg performanya ngelebihin manual biasa...?? yaa DSG jawabannya...

cuma.. klo part-nya ada yg rusak.... lgs tipis dompet :mrgreen:


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 Post subject: Re: Tiptronic VS Manual
PostMessage posted...: 10 Mar 2008, 16:24 
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mksdnya ga asli itu pak macam "tiptronic a la jazz",,,itu cuman manipulasi ecu yg ngelock di putaran pulley tertentu(baca dari majalah..)hahahaha...soale jazz itu basically tidak ada gear, cuman d tarik sabuk baja puli yg bisa berubah2nya:)
kalo bang gt-r blg itu dsg emg canggih dah...
tiptronik macam di BMW, grandis kaya nya jg pake manipulasi ecu buat ngeblok perpindahan gigi...betul kan?:)
kalo utk mengubah jadi tiptronik keq nya agak ribet yah..ato sama sekali ga bisa..ga jelas jg..huehuehue

yg pasti..transmisi a/t dgn torque converter pasti mengisap daya mesin yg besar dibandingkan dgn cvt ato dsg, apalagi manual..hehehe

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 Post subject: Re: Tiptronic VS Manual
PostMessage posted...: 10 Mar 2008, 18:16 
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GTR wrote:
@poetic:
Sepertinya hampir ga mungkin yah, nah tapi ini hal menarik.
Yg paling mungkin (kalo mungkin), itu mandatory yg a/t dgn Electronic -controlled krn ada pengaturan posisi gear by ECU, seperti ECT-S / gradelogic / activematic, dst.
Paling tidak, pada ECTnya sepertinya perlu ini:
1. Port komunikasi => port utk menerima command(=as input pd ECT) pemindah posisi gigi, utk aplikasi switch (user interface) di stir.
2. Feature override safety pd ECT, spt pada tiptronic bawaan, ada fungsi "override" jika terjadi salah command posisi gigi accidentally, misalnya : saat start tapi tidak di posisi gigi1; hal2 yg mengakibatkan overrev rpm; mencegah salah posisi gigi tinggi pada rpm terlalu rendah.


begitu... saya penasaran, karena kemaren pake mtsu, triptonic... enak bgt. makanya kalo secara teori sih, matic saya bisa dicustom jadi triptonic... bagus juga.
or, swap gearbox...
memang, akan ada masalah di ECU komp nya, tapi seharusnya bisa. dan pemasangan switch di setir bagus juga tuh...

kalo dari manual ke tripto kan biasa... mudah banget... kitnya banyak. dan ga mahal2 amat... :)

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 Post subject: Re: Tiptronic VS Manual
PostMessage posted...: 10 Mar 2008, 20:50 
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poeticmind wrote:
begitu... saya penasaran, karena kemaren pake mtsu, triptonic... enak bgt. makanya kalo secara teori sih, matic saya bisa dicustom jadi triptonic... bagus juga.
or, swap gearbox...

kemaren pke mitsu apa bro? :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: Tiptronic VS Manual
PostMessage posted...: 10 Mar 2008, 21:10 
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lancer, unit cbu 2002 (kalo disini artinya model yg 2004 ya keknya...). triptonic 6speed. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Tiptronic VS Manual
PostMessage posted...: 10 Mar 2008, 21:16 
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poeticmind wrote:
lancer, unit cbu 2002 (kalo disini artinya model yg 2004 ya keknya...). triptonic 6speed. :)

ooo....jadi mo beli nih....??? :roll: :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Tiptronic VS Manual
PostMessage posted...: 10 Mar 2008, 21:29 
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ganti triptonic, maksudnya sen... kalo bisa, gue mau... :D

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 Post subject: Re: Tiptronic VS Manual
PostMessage posted...: 10 Mar 2008, 22:40 
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@poetic
lancer 2002 tiptronic itu kan CVT (invecs III) mirip jazz/city, so, bukan a/t 'konvensional' (invecs II).
memang beda noticeable kan antara CVT dan a/t 'konvensional'.

Maksudnya Kit dari manual ke tiptronic itu yg sistem mirip Easyclucth yah? ,
kalo ini prefer disebut "AMT" ya = Automated Manual Transmission, mirip civic hatch 8gen, proton, dsb; bisa langsung naik/turun posisi gigi mana aja, bukan sekuensial.

krn kalo "tiptronic" kan kudu sekuensial setiap intervensi posisi gigi...


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 Post subject: Re: Tiptronic VS Manual
PostMessage posted...: 10 Mar 2008, 23:50 
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might be... ga ngerti juga, tapi enak dibawanya... dari gigi 1,2 dst responsif dibanding mode matic nya... beda sama karakter cityjazz, lewat lah...

manual ke tripto, ya easyclucth... bener. saya juga masih cari info, matic ke triptonic... belum ada jawaban yg menyenangkan... rata2 swap gearboxx but no explanation, how how...

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 Post subject: Re: Tiptronic VS Manual
PostMessage posted...: 11 Mar 2008, 00:01 
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"Manualmode" memang lebih responsif daripada "fully automatic mode", pada jazz pun "fully autamotic mode" ini ada 2 : "D" normal, dan "S" sporty utk rpm lebih tinggi.
Dan, ada mode satu lagi yaitu "7-speed mode" : perubahan ratio pd transmisi CVT ini jadi mirip a/t yg dgn 7 tingkat percepatan.
jadi, semua ada 3+1 mode.
Harus sama2 test "manualmode", pada jazz/city lebih rapat rationya karena 7 tingkat.
Lancer tiptronic ATPM = CVT 6 ratio gearing, tapi please notice kapasitas mesin lancer CVT adalah 1800cc (bukan 1600cc spt yg tipe manualnya); diatas kertas jazz jelas kalah telak, even yg vtec, harus dgn yg i-vtec isunya sekitar 9sec :D


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 Post subject: Re: Tiptronic VS Manual
PostMessage posted...: 11 Mar 2008, 00:28 
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hehehehe... bener, tapi di 0-402meter masih kalah sama NextG saya... hahahaha! :D

but, soal matic2 gini memang tergantung yg pake sih... ada yg suka matic konvensional, CVT dan lain2... saya sendiri dari benci matic jadi suka, bukan sama kenyaman nya... tapi teknologinya bikin saya tertarik. belum sempet mendalami, sejauh ini mau nikmatin aja dulu. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Tiptronic VS Manual
PostMessage posted...: 11 Mar 2008, 00:33 
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DSG paling menarik & pas, & jadi punya 2 transmisi yg berputar pararel : genap & ganjil, tapi jadi costly, heavy & belum byk bengkel yg menangani ini.


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