GRAND LIVINA 2013 XV AT Kenapa boros bgt ya?

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ajprasetyo
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GRAND LIVINA 2013 XV AT Kenapa boros bgt ya?

Post by ajprasetyo »

Halo Master2 semua.

Ane kemarin barusan beli GL XV AT 2013. Setelah 2 bulan pakai, hal yang paling buat saya kaget ternyata di konsumsi BBM. Saya tinggal di Depok. Terakhir hitung top-to-top, dapet 6,5 km/lt kombinasi dalkot. Rute pemakaian emang deket2, paling antar jemput anak. Jalan jarak menengah juga cuma ke Bintaro lewat tol. Kalau antar anak, paling pelan2, 20-40 km/jam an soalnya cuma di deket ruman. Pas ke bintaro lwt jalan tol, jalan santai 80 km/jam an. tapi pas saya isi kok boros banget ya hasilnya?

Kira-kira ada yg tau apa penyebabnya? kalau agan2 punya pengalaman dan info yang bisa bantu pertanyaan ane, mohon bantuannya ya :e-pray:
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Re: GRAND LIVINA 2013 XV AT Kenapa boros bgt ya?

Post by josomba »

ajprasetyo wrote: Tue May 08, 2018 5:50 Halo Master2 semua.

Ane kemarin barusan beli GL XV AT 2013. Setelah 2 bulan pakai, hal yang paling buat saya kaget ternyata di konsumsi BBM. Saya tinggal di Depok. Terakhir hitung top-to-top, dapet 6,5 km/lt kombinasi dalkot. Rute pemakaian emang deket2, paling antar jemput anak. Jalan jarak menengah juga cuma ke Bintaro lewat tol. Kalau antar anak, paling pelan2, 20-40 km/jam an soalnya cuma di deket ruman. Pas ke bintaro lwt jalan tol, jalan santai 80 km/jam an. tapi pas saya isi kok boros banget ya hasilnya?

Kira-kira ada yg tau apa penyebabnya? kalau agan2 punya pengalaman dan info yang bisa bantu pertanyaan ane, mohon bantuannya ya :e-pray:
Kalau dari ngangkut belum ada ganti ini itu, better coba ganti oli (pake buntut -30), carbon clean, ganti saringan udara, bersihin throttle body. Kalau mau tambahan lagi sih ganti busi juga ama liat service record dan buku manual, sudah waktunya ganti saringan bensin belum.
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Re: GRAND LIVINA 2013 XV AT Kenapa boros bgt ya?

Post by IGedeAmat »

+1 buat saran om josomba, coba servis aja dulu.

jalan santai 20-40 km dalam komplek emang lebih boros dari jalan jauh lewat tol,
biasanya ditambah lagi kalo jemput anak sering idle, parkir nunggu anak keluar sambil mesin idup,
coba aja test sekali2 ajak jalan jauh,
liat konsumsi nya gimana...
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Re: GRAND LIVINA 2013 XV AT Kenapa boros bgt ya?

Post by Herman7103 »

ajprasetyo wrote:Halo Master2 semua.

Ane kemarin barusan beli GL XV AT 2013. Setelah 2 bulan pakai, hal yang paling buat saya kaget ternyata di konsumsi BBM. Saya tinggal di Depok. Terakhir hitung top-to-top, dapet 6,5 km/lt kombinasi dalkot. Rute pemakaian emang deket2, paling antar jemput anak. Jalan jarak menengah juga cuma ke Bintaro lewat tol. Kalau antar anak, paling pelan2, 20-40 km/jam an soalnya cuma di deket ruman. Pas ke bintaro lwt jalan tol, jalan santai 80 km/jam an. tapi pas saya isi kok boros banget ya hasilnya?

Kira-kira ada yg tau apa penyebabnya? kalau agan2 punya pengalaman dan info yang bisa bantu pertanyaan ane, mohon bantuannya ya :e-pray:
Saya cuma user ANGL CVT 2014 coba bantu jawab dengan kebiasaan yg saya lakukan:
1. Reset dulu AVG MID Mobilnya saat habis isi full tank BBM di SPBU. Driving nya dgn toel toel pedal gas untuk slide and glide and better less hard breaking atau bisa dikatakan diurut saat ngegas nya dan driving under 2000 RPM lah. Kalau saya nyetir dgn kaki tanpa alas biar injek rem atau gasnya pas secukupnya saja krn sdh kebiasaan dari awal bawa mobil dgn kaki telanjang ini
[emoji2]
2. Karena AC Mobil ANGL saya sdh dingin di putaran AC ke satu dan set Temprature cukup di 3 klik aja sdh cukup untuk mendingin kan kabin saat siang terik karena mobil sebisanya diparkir tempat teduh dan kaca film mobil sdh all kegelapan 60% dan row 3 gak pernah dipakai atau dilipat rata lantai.
3. Mobil jangan sering idle dgn AC yg kenceng atau ngedem dlm mobil saat lagi nunggu. Mending matiin mesin dan keluar dari mobil saat nunggu anak atau istri.
4. Saya gunakan oli mesin 5W30 utk masa pakai 5 sampai max 7 bln selalu ganti termasuk filter oli mesinnya karena mobil saya minum premium sih (don't follow me) kalau mesin sdh mulai kedengaran rada ada bunyi ngelitik saat kaca jendela kita buka krn kalau tertutup ngak kedengaran, saya ganti oli dan filter olinya jg dlm rangka tune up Mobil he.. he.. So far mobil sampai skrg ngak ada ngetik parah dan kuat Nanjak krn no power loss krn mesin ngelitik parah. Maintenance yg konsisten supaya mesin mobil sehat dan prima.
5. Tekanan Ban jangan pernah dibawah tekanan yg direkomendasikan pabrik, kalau saya di ANGL CVT 2014 depan dan belakang saya jaga tekanan di 36 psi.
Cuma itu aja saran saya, selamat mencoba semoga ada perbaikan Fuel consumption mobilnya. [emoji3]
:glodak:
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Re: GRAND LIVINA 2013 XV AT Kenapa boros bgt ya?

Post by alexdonovan »

ajprasetyo wrote: Tue May 08, 2018 5:50 Halo Master2 semua.

Ane kemarin barusan beli GL XV AT 2013. Setelah 2 bulan pakai, hal yang paling buat saya kaget ternyata di konsumsi BBM. Saya tinggal di Depok. Terakhir hitung top-to-top, dapet 6,5 km/lt kombinasi dalkot. Rute pemakaian emang deket2, paling antar jemput anak. Jalan jarak menengah juga cuma ke Bintaro lewat tol. Kalau antar anak, paling pelan2, 20-40 km/jam an soalnya cuma di deket ruman. Pas ke bintaro lwt jalan tol, jalan santai 80 km/jam an. tapi pas saya isi kok boros banget ya hasilnya?

Kira-kira ada yg tau apa penyebabnya? kalau agan2 punya pengalaman dan info yang bisa bantu pertanyaan ane, mohon bantuannya ya :e-pray:
Om TS,

Metode ngukurnya fuel consumption-nya gimana? Full-to-full atau andalkan MID? Antar jemput anak berapa km? Macet apa ga?

Dengan usage seperti itu, sepertinya wajar kalau boros.

Waktu saya kerja di Jakarta, Ford saya (1.5, DCT-6) juga minum 1:6 - 1:7 dengan pola penggunaan yang mirip.
Rumah - kantor cuma 4 km, ditempuh 30 menit. Rute yang sama, saya pake Calya A/T cuma dapet 1:8
Calya A/T 2017 (2022-now)
OS PX 2014 (2022-now)
Kluger Grande 2004 (Jan 2023-Jun 2024)
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Re: GRAND LIVINA 2013 XV AT Kenapa boros bgt ya?

Post by IGedeAmat »

alexdonovan wrote: Tue May 08, 2018 6:54 Om TS,

Metode ngukurnya fuel consumption-nya gimana? Full-to-full atau andalkan MID? Antar jemput anak berapa km? Macet apa ga?

Dengan usage seperti itu, sepertinya wajar kalau boros.

Waktu saya kerja di Jakarta, Ford saya (1.5, DCT-6) juga minum 1:6 - 1:7 dengan pola penggunaan yang mirip.
Rumah - kantor cuma 4 km, ditempuh 30 menit. Rute yang sama, saya pake Calya A/T cuma dapet 1:8
OOT dikit,
kalo saya sih 4Km 30 menit, mending naik motor deh...
:big_think:
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Re: GRAND LIVINA 2013 XV AT Kenapa boros bgt ya?

Post by marmut »

1. kalau jarang RPM tinggi, apalagi hanya jarak dekat, boleh pake oli mesin SAE 0w20.
sebelum ganti oli mesin ada baiknya di-flush dahulu. sekalian ganti filter olinya.
2. periksa filter udara, ganti apabila perlu.
3. tekanan angin ban kasih sampai batas maksimal yang sanggup diterima oleh ban. di sidewall biasanya tertera "max. press. ... psi". kalau tidak ada keterangan kasih saja 40 psi.

setelah itu semua dikerjakan, dilihat lagi ada perubahan atau tidak.
misal ada dana lebih, boleh carbon clean dan major tune up supaya tenaga mesin jadi lebih baik.
jangan lupa, wheel alignment yang tidak tepat juga berpengaruh ke konsumsi bahan bakar.
terakhir, pakai bahan bakar yang diminta oleh mesin, di manual book tertera oktan minimum yang diminta. ingat, itu nilai oktan minimum.
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Re: GRAND LIVINA 2013 XV AT Kenapa boros bgt ya?

Post by marmut »

IGedeAmat wrote: Tue May 08, 2018 7:21
alexdonovan wrote: Tue May 08, 2018 6:54 Om TS,

Metode ngukurnya fuel consumption-nya gimana? Full-to-full atau andalkan MID? Antar jemput anak berapa km? Macet apa ga?

Dengan usage seperti itu, sepertinya wajar kalau boros.

Waktu saya kerja di Jakarta, Ford saya (1.5, DCT-6) juga minum 1:6 - 1:7 dengan pola penggunaan yang mirip.
Rumah - kantor cuma 4 km, ditempuh 30 menit. Rute yang sama, saya pake Calya A/T cuma dapet 1:8
OOT dikit,
kalo saya sih 4Km 30 menit, mending naik motor deh...
:big_think:

lama amat 4 km 30 menit? owe 7 km cuma 15 menit naik sepeda jalan santai. uang bensinnya bisa buat beli bubur ayam, lontong sayur, mpek-mpek, nasi kuning, mi ayam, ketan susu, dkk.....









:ngacir:
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Re: GRAND LIVINA 2013 XV AT Kenapa boros bgt ya?

Post by sintoni »

Idem nih sama om2 ganteng diatas.

Coba ganti seluruh fluid atau oli (oli mesin pke yang encer).
Bersihin/ganti filter udara.
Carbon clean + tune up.
Cek tekanan angin ban.
Coba spooring jg.
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Re: GRAND LIVINA 2013 XV AT Kenapa boros bgt ya?

Post by Wistuwis »

marmut wrote: Tue May 08, 2018 7:49
IGedeAmat wrote: Tue May 08, 2018 7:21
alexdonovan wrote: Tue May 08, 2018 6:54 Om TS,

Metode ngukurnya fuel consumption-nya gimana? Full-to-full atau andalkan MID? Antar jemput anak berapa km? Macet apa ga?

Dengan usage seperti itu, sepertinya wajar kalau boros.

Waktu saya kerja di Jakarta, Ford saya (1.5, DCT-6) juga minum 1:6 - 1:7 dengan pola penggunaan yang mirip.
Rumah - kantor cuma 4 km, ditempuh 30 menit. Rute yang sama, saya pake Calya A/T cuma dapet 1:8
OOT dikit,
kalo saya sih 4Km 30 menit, mending naik motor deh...
:big_think:

lama amat 4 km 30 menit? owe 7 km cuma 15 menit naik sepeda jalan santai. uang bensinnya bisa buat beli bubur ayam, lontong sayur, mpek-mpek, nasi kuning, mi ayam, ketan susu, dkk.....









:ngacir:
Saya nganter sekolah bocil jarak 4 km kisaran waktunya 15-20menit (dari ngeluarin mobil di garasi sampai parkir di sekolah). Jalan aspal desa masih banyak tegalan kebon tanpa trafik light. Berarti om gowesnya kebut dong
:big_exellent:
BTT. Om TS, picanto sy sehari2 buat anter anak jarak 4km, ke indomaret alfamart, cuci mobil, sekali2 ke kota. Memang terasa borosnya. Sekitar 1:9.
Tapi kalau ke luar kota dapat sekitar 1:15.
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Re: GRAND LIVINA 2013 XV AT Kenapa boros bgt ya?

Post by EOR24 »

Coba dulu di tune up om TS. Setelah yakin mesin bersih dan sehat, baru di tes lagi konsumsi BBM nya.

Kalo masih boros juga, berarti driving behaviour nya perlu di evaluasi.

Tapi pengalaman saya, memang mobil dipake jarak2 pendek begitu memang lebih boros. Padahal jalan pelan aja.


Sekedar share, pake punya kakak livina M/T irit banget utk dalam kota (bisa dapet 1:10 lebih) tapi kalo pake livina A/T punya kantor ampuun boros nya dengan rute pemakaian yang sama (sekitar 1:7-8)
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Re: GRAND LIVINA 2013 XV AT Kenapa boros bgt ya?

Post by Ak01382 »

setuju ama usul2 senior diatas.
di rumah juga ada ANGL CVT 2014

pengalaman yg bikin boros :
1. Oli mesin dikasih buntut 40 (udah tobat dan berganti ke 10w-30)
2. driving technique. (gas harus diurut) mesin tipe livina ga bisa dibejek langsung lari, kudu slow

aga OOT,
ipar punya mbl rush dikasih oli mesin buntut 40 karena ngikutin rekomendasi beres (yang ga beres)
1l :9-10km
trus doi komplen koq bensinnya boros. gw kasih tahu kudu ganti oli yg enceran yg buntut 30 malah ngeyel
yaudah la. Yang Waras Nga...lahh..
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Re: GRAND LIVINA 2013 XV AT Kenapa boros bgt ya?

Post by devin96 »

Pada saat ambil mobil tsb kilometer nya brp om? dan bagaimana service record dari kendaraan tsb?

Kalo memang boros bisa melakukan general maintenance yang meliputi TUNE UP dan CARBON CLEAN

TUNE UP, pastikan bengkel tsb memiliki SOP tune up yg lengkap, karena definisi tune up tiap2 bengkel berbeda, menurut saya SOP tune up yg ideal:
1.bersihkan busi, filter udara, filter bensin (ganti apabila kondisi sudah parah)
2.bersihkan MAF sensor dengan contact cleaner atau maf sensor cleaner crc (khusus mbl yg pake maf sensor)
3.bersihkan intake manfold
4.bersihkan throttle body
5.setel klep (hanya utk mobil2 tertentu seperti honda dll, klo toyota tdk perlu karna klep HLA) tdk tau kalo nissan
6.bersihkan ruang bakar (dengan engine conditioner biasanya klo hanya tune up)

CARBON CLEAN, ini untuk bersihkan ruang bakar, cairan dimasukan melalui lubang busi lalu nanti di sedot lagi pake kompresor.
nah bedanya bersihkan ruang bakar pada TUNE UP DAN CARBON CLEAN adalah terletak pada jenis obat nya, carbon clean pake cairan yang bentuk nya ya cair sehingga bsa masuk ke ruang bakar lebih sempurna dan lebih keras juga obat nya biasanya bengkel2 pake merk SPIRIT CARBON CLEAN LAISIN, kalo bersihkan ruang bakar saat tune up, biasanya cm pake engine conditioner, cairan yg berbentuk foam. Efektivitas cairan tsb tidak sekuat cairan spirit carbon clean.

Untuk oli mesin bisa pake yg 5w/30, jgn pake yg 0w/20, terlalu encer itu apalagi klo di jkt yg panas cepet nguap, suara mesin jg jd agak kasar, efk ke bbm jg ga banyak2 amat.

tekanan angin pastikan maksimal 35 psi, normal nya sih 32psi - 35spi..cukuplah 35psi

semoga bisa membantu om
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Re: GRAND LIVINA 2013 XV AT Kenapa boros bgt ya?

Post by b8099ok »

I really hate how nissin biskuit treat hr15 engine. They push the power output using only ign. Why? 🙈 Maybe they forgot how to tune vvt 🤦🐖
FWD + RWD + 4WD = :big_cat:
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Re: GRAND LIVINA 2013 XV AT Kenapa boros bgt ya?

Post by Herman7103 »

b8099ok wrote:I really hate how nissin biskuit treat hr15 engine. They push the power output using only ign. Why? [emoji85] Maybe they forgot how to tune vvt 🤦[emoji241]
Your are kidding with your comment they forget how to tune vvt.
I have different opinion.
They don't forget how to tune vvt or vtc. Why they choose dual injector? Actually if only one injector, when we are not need much power, it has limitations.

Dual-injection then works if high power requirements are needed. "Therefore, They decides how low RPMs will be when no big power is required, so only one injector will work, but when it comes to power, both injector work.

The explanation is the core of the change is none other than to "prioritize" the main purpose of a fuel-efficient car that can also promote performance.

"That is the main points why they push power output using only ign and use dual engine injector in HR15DE engine because, economically can achieved, the other side it's performance too.
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Re: GRAND LIVINA 2013 XV AT Kenapa boros bgt ya?

Post by b8099ok »

Herman7103 wrote: Thu May 10, 2018 10:03
b8099ok wrote:I really hate how nissin biskuit treat hr15 engine. They push the power output using only ign. Why? [emoji85] Maybe they forgot how to tune vvt 🤦[emoji241]
Your are kidding with your comment they forget how to tune vvt.
I have different opinion.
They don't forget how to tune vvt or vtc. Why they choose dual injector? Actually if only one injector, when we are not need much power, it has limitations.

Dual-injection then works if high power requirements are needed. "Therefore, They decides how low RPMs will be when no big power is required, so only one injector will work, but when it comes to power, both injector work.

The explanation is the core of the change is none other than to "prioritize" the main purpose of a fuel-efficient car that can also promote performance.

"That is the main points why they push power output using only ign and use dual engine injector in HR15DE engine because, economically can achieved, the other side it's performance too.
Oh, u open the ecu file already? Or just assume?
FWD + RWD + 4WD = :big_cat:
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Re: GRAND LIVINA 2013 XV AT Kenapa boros bgt ya?

Post by Herman7103 »

b8099ok wrote:
Herman7103 wrote: Thu May 10, 2018 10:03
b8099ok wrote:I really hate how nissin biskuit treat hr15 engine. They push the power output using only ign. Why? [emoji85] Maybe they forgot how to tune vvt 🤦[emoji241]
Your are kidding with your comment they forget how to tune vvt.
I have different opinion.
They don't forget how to tune vvt or vtc. Why they choose dual injector? Actually if only one injector, when we are not need much power, it has limitations.

Dual-injection then works if high power requirements are needed. "Therefore, They decides how low RPMs will be when no big power is required, so only one injector will work, but when it comes to power, both injector work.

The explanation is the core of the change is none other than to "prioritize" the main purpose of a fuel-efficient car that can also promote performance.

"That is the main points why they push power output using only ign and use dual engine injector in HR15DE engine because, economically can achieved, the other side it's performance too.
Oh, u open the ecu file already? Or just assume?
I am never open ECU file and no making assumption.
Only read this information came from Vice President Sales dan Marketing PT Nissan Motor Indonesia and trust his comment due to high rank officer inner circle NMI that time.

https://m.otosia.com/berita/hebatnya-me ... -baru.html


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Re: GRAND LIVINA 2013 XV AT Kenapa boros bgt ya?

Post by Herman7103 »

Herman7103 wrote:
b8099ok wrote:
Herman7103 wrote: Thu May 10, 2018 10:03 Your are kidding with your comment they forget how to tune vvt.
I have different opinion.
They don't forget how to tune vvt or vtc. Why they choose dual injector? Actually if only one injector, when we are not need much power, it has limitations.

Dual-injection then works if high power requirements are needed. "Therefore, They decides how low RPMs will be when no big power is required, so only one injector will work, but when it comes to power, both injector work.

The explanation is the core of the change is none other than to "prioritize" the main purpose of a fuel-efficient car that can also promote performance.

"That is the main points why they push power output using only ign and use dual engine injector in HR15DE engine because, economically can achieved, the other side it's performance too.
Oh, u open the ecu file already? Or just assume?
I am never open ECU file and no making assumption.
Only read this information came from Vice President Sales dan Marketing PT Nissan Motor Indonesia and trust his comment due to high rank officer inner circle NMI that time.

https://m.otosia.com/berita/hebatnya-me ... -baru.html
https://m.otosia.com/berita/hebatnya-me ... -baru.html
:glodak:
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Re: GRAND LIVINA 2013 XV AT Kenapa boros bgt ya?

Post by b8099ok »

Try open the file, and you'll see.
Btw, vvt map is completely separated with injector 1 and 2 maps.
Boneka nipong koq di percaya, cape deh 🤣
FWD + RWD + 4WD = :big_cat:
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Re: GRAND LIVINA 2013 XV AT Kenapa boros bgt ya?

Post by Herman7103 »

b8099ok wrote:Try open the file, and you'll see.
Btw, vvt map is completely separated with injector 1 and 2 maps.
Boneka nipong koq di percaya, cape deh 🤣
Setahu saya di korporasi yg paling banyak terima laporan summary eksekutif yg berisi banyak informasi ya Pres Dir dan Vice PD nya itu bukan outsider corporation lah. Itu karena setiap corporate ada struktur organisasi nya yg tertinggi PD lalu VPD dst. Jujur aja mana yg lebih saya percayai high rank inner circle or outsider, honestly i still believe high rank inner circle have more information and more valid info.
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Re: GRAND LIVINA 2013 XV AT Kenapa boros bgt ya?

Post by b8099ok »

Ya terserah, I don't really care about that 🤣
FWD + RWD + 4WD = :big_cat:
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Re: GRAND LIVINA 2013 XV AT Kenapa boros bgt ya?

Post by arfs »

Herman7103 wrote: Thu May 10, 2018 11:56
Herman7103 wrote:
b8099ok wrote:
Oh, u open the ecu file already? Or just assume?
I am never open ECU file and no making assumption.
Only read this information came from Vice President Sales dan Marketing PT Nissan Motor Indonesia and trust his comment due to high rank officer inner circle NMI that time.

https://m.otosia.com/berita/hebatnya-me ... -baru.html
https://m.otosia.com/berita/hebatnya-me ... -baru.html


Dual-injection lantas bekerja jika kebutuhan tenaga pada putaran tinggi dibutuhkan. "Oleh karenanya, Nissan memutuskan agar bagaimana saat low RPM, pada saat tidak diperlukan tenaga, maka hanya satu saja yang kerja. Tapi saat perlu tenaga, dua-duanya bekerja," tambahnya.

Well the official Nissan Taiwan's video animation doesn't shown it like what he said....
“I don’t want to be preached to about cars by someone who doesn’t even know how to drive.” - Hiromu Naruse (TMC Master Test Driver) to Akio Toyoda, 2000.
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Re: GRAND LIVINA 2013 XV AT Kenapa boros bgt ya?

Post by GriffinMelet »

Kemarin saya juga ngerasa gitu om, pp semarang tegal pake livina M/T abis 250ribu buat bensinya (mix pertamax sama pertalite) , kalo saya itung” 1 liter cuma bisa 6-7 km doang, tapi emang lagi ada masalah di mesinya sih (coilnya aga ga sehat sama businya bermasalah) , belum sempet ganti/cek lagi sampe sekarang haha mungkin kalo 2 masalah itu solved konsumsi bbmnya bakalan bagusan dikit :ngacir: cmiiw
Share the driving pleasure :ngacir:

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Re: GRAND LIVINA 2013 XV AT Kenapa boros bgt ya?

Post by ChZ »

Herman7103 wrote: Thu May 10, 2018 12:13 Setahu saya di korporasi yg paling banyak terima laporan summary eksekutif yg berisi banyak informasi ya Pres Dir dan Vice PD nya itu bukan outsider corporation lah. Itu karena setiap corporate ada struktur organisasi nya yg tertinggi PD lalu VPD dst. Jujur aja mana yg lebih saya percayai high rank inner circle or outsider, honestly i still believe high rank inner circle have more information and more valid info.
Valid ? Ha ha ha...

I just knew that there is someone here, in SM, which choose to eat executive's bluffing than a truth told by so-called "outsider" .... while the "outsider" has more info and had tweaked several ECUs... which I believe those executives did not even open the ECU file nor know anything about it.

Like the old saying "mana ada maling yang ngaku, penjara penuh bos!"

Those executive does not have any engineering knowledge or competence... ye still choose to believe them ? Like believing that RWD is better than FWD in some marketing black campaign...
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Re: GRAND LIVINA 2013 XV AT Kenapa boros bgt ya?

Post by Herman7103 »

ChZ wrote:
Herman7103 wrote: Thu May 10, 2018 12:13 Setahu saya di korporasi yg paling banyak terima laporan summary eksekutif yg berisi banyak informasi ya Pres Dir dan Vice PD nya itu bukan outsider corporation lah. Itu karena setiap corporate ada struktur organisasi nya yg tertinggi PD lalu VPD dst. Jujur aja mana yg lebih saya percayai high rank inner circle or outsider, honestly i still believe high rank inner circle have more information and more valid info.
Valid ? Ha ha ha...

I just knew that there is someone here, in SM, which choose to eat executive's bluffing than a truth told by so-called "outsider" .... while the "outsider" has more info and had tweaked several ECUs... which I believe those executives did not even open the ECU file nor know anything about it.

Like the old saying "mana ada maling yang ngaku, penjara penuh bos!"

Those executive does not have any engineering knowledge or competence... ye still choose to believe them ? Like believing that RWD is better than FWD in some marketing black campaign...
yes I'm more confident with the official source and if what the official source says is consistent with what I experienced when using HR engine of course i trust it. By the way, now I know you don't trust the official source, but no problem with me wkwkwk. We have different opinion just that.[emoji1]
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