(ASK) Transmisi AT Wagon R (AGS/AMT)

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dieselkiki
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(ASK) Transmisi AT Wagon R (AGS/AMT)

Post by dieselkiki »

Sori saya belum sempat gugling dan belum sempat ngerasain mobil Automated Manual Transmission.

Tahunya kalau AT hanya CVT ataupun geared AT. Katanya bikin kagok ya transmisi AT ini ? Bedanya apa ya dengan tipe yang lain ? Misalnya fitur mode manual, CVT kan juga ada. Bagaimana daya tahannya, kalau rusak lebih makan biaya mana sama CVT ? Bagaimana jerky nya ? Lebih nyaman mana sama cvt dan geared AT. Tolong perbandingannya sama 2 yang lain itu dunk.

Kalau tidak salah sempat baca kesimpulannya kurang nyaman dengan AMT
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Re: (ASK) Transmisi AT Wagon R (AGS/AMT)

Post by billyd1773dz »

AGS-AMT itu literaly transmisi 5MT di pasang modul kopling + shifter otomatis. unit transmisi MTnya sama jadi sparepart termasuk clutchny juga pakai clutch yg sama dgn MT. perawatan sama dgn MT
kec... klw modul AMT yg rusak..

jd cara kerjanya beda dengan AT konvensional yang pakai torqueconverter, apa lagi CVT. ini lebih mirip DSG tapi single clutch.

in theory sih... connected feelnya AMT seharusnya dapet banget setelah clutch engage layaknya MT dan DSG, minim slip mean minim powerloss better fc n performance, klw AT biasa yg lockupny lambat selipnya banyak apalagi cvt.
karna single clutch dan robotize shift, shift akan relatif lambat dan non torqueconverter smoothny akan beda jg g ada torque multiplier dri TC..
daya tahan...... ya selain klw rusak modul AMTnya, clutchny juga seperti MT biasa, yang umurnya lebih pendek dari torqueconverter trutama klw sering di gantung/setengah kopling oleh tcmnya.

pastinya soal performa baru terjawab dari TD, dan daya tahan dijawab oleh waktu :D

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Re: (ASK) Transmisi AT Wagon R (AGS/AMT)

Post by philosophie »

mungkin buat lebih jelas bisa baca dsini dlu
http://autonetmagz.com/first-ride-revie ... tic/28702/

menurut saya tu review sudah ckup menggambarkan ya..
jadi matic wagon R gunanya cman menghilangkan kopling saja sepertinya.. tapi rasanya masih rasa manual dmana perpindahan gigi akan terasa layaknya manual, tapi lebih cepat sehingga lebih menghentak
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Re: (ASK) Transmisi AT Wagon R (AGS/AMT)

Post by epinjose »

Berarti mirip transimisi nya smart ya om? Bakal Jerky gearshift juga sepertinya ya?
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Re: (ASK) Transmisi AT Wagon R (AGS/AMT)

Post by billyd1773dz »

iyes seperti smart.. dan fiat500... mungkin ini lebih dekat ke fiat500 karna suppliernya magnetimarelli dan suzuki memang punya relasi dengan fiat. pling bener tetep TD, karna AT konvensional juga tidak semua smooth, banyak yg shiftny lambat dan ngehentak punya karakter masing2...... yg pasti transmisi yang berbeda butu penyesuaian



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Re: (ASK) Transmisi AT Wagon R (AGS/AMT)

Post by kunaskun »

penasaran seberapa jerky dan seberapa nyaman, kalau ga parah2 amat kayanya lucu nih :mky_08:
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Re: (ASK) Transmisi AT Wagon R (AGS/AMT)

Post by philosophie »

tapi cocok si ini transmisinya wagon buat ynag hobi maen tripto mobil kyknya..
drpd pake tripto biasa pada jebol klo sering2 dioper2 kan..
mgkn ini lebih kuat haha
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Re: (ASK) Transmisi AT Wagon R (AGS/AMT)

Post by epinjose »

kunaskun wrote:penasaran seberapa jerky dan seberapa nyaman, kalau ga parah2 amat kayanya lucu nih :mky_08:
Small city car + LCGC + "Steptronic"... :big_exellent:

Shortclip AGS, Sepertinya suzuki carry di jepang.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEqD_ViCSqA
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Re: (ASK) Transmisi AT Wagon R (AGS/AMT)

Post by hafizh »

mudah2an unit TD-nya segera sampai sini
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Re: (ASK) Transmisi AT Wagon R (AGS/AMT)

Post by billyd1773dz »

perawatan 100rb km pertama, MT vs AT sebenernya lebih mahal MT... karna AT tidak ada yg perlu diganti, sedangkan MT bisa ganti oli GB sampai clutch dekrup dll gmn pemakaian.... AMT tentu ikut ke MT.

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Re: (ASK) Transmisi AT Wagon R (AGS/AMT)

Post by billyd1773dz »

0-100 suzuki AGS di alto turbo


noticeable shift kaya pke mbl MT yg drivierny shift dgn normal... not agresif/quickshift.

AGS vs CVT

noticeable shift
atleast no infinite cvt note.... nguuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu

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Re: (ASK) Transmisi AT Wagon R (AGS/AMT)

Post by dieselkiki »

thx ALL

If you're lugging uphill (not pressing the accelerator) in 1st gear and the incline or load gets too much for the car, it won't stall like a manual transmission would. Instead, the AMT will just disengage the clutch and you start rolling backwards! >> ngeri bener.

• If the AMT was tuned for comfort or smoothness (rather than fuel economy), it would prevent the transmission from getting confused at times, and having to hunt up and down gears so often.

• Not sure how the AMT will behave once the clutch starts to wear out. Will AMT clutches have to be replaced sooner than MT clutches? Proper clutch service and setting will play an important role with the Celerio AMT. And remember, use the handbrake on inclines!

=========

Memang kudu test drive yang ekstrim..
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Re: (ASK) Transmisi AT Wagon R (AGS/AMT)

Post by kunaskun »

dieselkiki wrote:thx ALL

If you're lugging uphill (not pressing the accelerator) in 1st gear and the incline or load gets too much for the car, it won't stall like a manual transmission would. Instead, the AMT will just disengage the clutch and you start rolling backwards! >> ngeri bener.
bukannya yang bener kaya gini? kalau ngarepnya bisa setengah kopling di tanjakan pun itu sebenernya juga hal yang ga baik buat kopling kan? not a big deal lah,.
• If the AMT was tuned for comfort or smoothness (rather than fuel economy), it would prevent the transmission from getting confused at times, and having to hunt up and down gears so often.
nah ini dia yang jadi masalah, gear hunting + amt = jerky ga.

• Not sure how the AMT will behave once the clutch starts to wear out. Will AMT clutches have to be replaced sooner than MT clutches? Proper clutch service and setting will play an important role with the Celerio AMT. And remember, use the handbrake on inclines!

=========

Memang kudu test drive yang ekstrim..
harusnya si di modul shifting ada auto adjust untuk setelan kopling ya? soal umur pakai tebakan ane malah bisa panjang sekali sebab ga ada kan namanya setengah kopling dll.

yang penasaran mekanisme hydraulic shift itu kaya apa ya? ada mechanical part yang worn out ga ya?
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Re: (ASK) Transmisi AT Wagon R (AGS/AMT)

Post by andrijet »

Review Otomotif sepertinya gak jauh sama rasa transmisi Smart dan Fiat 500.
Which is bad and jengkelin (katanya).
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Re: (ASK) Transmisi AT Wagon R (AGS/AMT)

Post by amfibi »

Kalo mau tau yg lengkap bgt soal AMT di suzuki celerio ( & wagonR jg sama sistemnya), ane baca2 dari sini :

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/official- ... eview.html
How it works is pretty straightforward. Mechanically, the AMT gearbox is identical to the Celerio's manual transmission. What's different is how the clutch is operated and how the gears are shifted. In the manual, the driver is responsible for these tasks. With the AMT, hydraulic actuators located in the engine bay operate the clutch and shift gears. There's no clutch pedal, and zero driver input is required for gearshifts, making it exactly like a conventional automatic to operate. Simply put, the mechanical functions of operating the clutch and gear-lever have moved from inside the cabin to the engine bay.

Starting the engine up must be done with the gear lever in Neutral. You have to press the brake pedal as well, else the engine won't start. There's no 'P' (park) mode or gear unlock button like in a conventional AT. Once fired up, slide the gear-lever to 'D' (drive) to get going. As you release the brake, the car will move forward without any accelerator input. However, it doesn't move too fast and will top out at about 6-7 km/h, without any driver input. When you press the accelerator, you'll notice that throttle response is quite immediate. It's exactly like a pure manual in this respect.

In city traffic is where the AMT truly shines and brings the most benefits. There's no clutch pedal and there's no requirement for the driver to repeatedly shift between Neutral-1st-2nd either. In crawling bumper to bumper traffic, you don’t need to give any accelerator input. Just release the brake a little bit, and the car crawls forward. Start-off is extremely smooth. At these speeds, there is no difference felt between the AMT and a conventional AT. In fact, this is more like a DSG in stop & go traffic since the mechanism is identical (but only between Neutral and 1st gear). Maruti has coined the term 'EZ Drive' to market its AMT; we couldn't agree anymore. Budget car owners will love the fact that their left leg is completely relaxed. The tricky part with the AMT in city driving is parking into tight spots. Unlike a conventional AT where it's possible to ease the car forward very gradually, the AMT is more of an 'on or off' solution, as it tries its best not to slip the clutch more than required. This results in more eager movement, which can be a bit tricky when getting in & out of tight parking spaces.

Gearshift quality is a universal sore point for Automated Manual Transmissions. The Celerio's AMT is no different. Despite the start-off from 0 km/h being seamless, it’s the following gearshifts that are indeed noticeable. First-time automatic drivers won't have any complaints with the AMT. However, those used to smoother AT gearboxes will definitely notice the compromise. The first time you drive off, you'll be accelerating and there will suddenly be a lull in acceleration when the car shifts up to 2nd gear. You can certainly feel this drop in acceleration, as the clutch disengages and engages, especially from the driver's seat. On your first few drives of the AMT, this upshifting and the resultant loss in acceleration can get annoying. Another example: If you're cruising along at 40 km/h in 4th gear, and you press the accelerator to get a little more acceleration, you'll feel a lull before the acceleration actually kicks in - because the gearbox is shifting down to 3rd gear. On each gearshift, you feel your body move forward due to the mismatch of anticipation and reality. The lag in power during gearshifts is more noticeable during uphill climbs, since the drop in acceleration is more pronounced.

Sounds like a disappointment? Fret not. There's a silver lining on this cloud. Firstly, no matter how evident the gearshifts seem to the driver, passengers won't notice them! GTO barely noticed an awkward gearshift when I was driving, and I barely noticed one when he was at the wheel. Passengers just don't anticipate shifts the same way the driver does, and this makes it a smooth ride for them. Secondly, there are some simple driving tips you can apply to make your gearshift experience smoother. If you drive with an extremely light foot, the shifts will be much less perceptible, since the drop in acceleration at each shift won't be as large. Another tip that some might get used to, others will find cumbersome: When accelerating up to speed, let off the accelerator at intervals, and the AMT will cease that opportunity to upshift. E.g. When going from 0-40 km/h, let off the accelerator very slightly at 10, 20 and 30 km/h, and the AMT will take each one of those opportunities to upshift a gear - almost like you told it to! Finally, you'll be happy to know that shift quality gets better between higher gears, and is virtually seamless when going downhill. It's also completely silent in its operation. There's absolutely no noise or clanking when the gears shift.

Fuel efficiency is without a doubt what the AMT has been tuned for. This means the transmission will shift up gears as early as possible. Even in crawling traffic, the AMT will upshift to 2nd gear at a fairly low 10-12 km/h. The large 'current gear indicator' of the MID keeps you in the loop as to which gear is engaged. It's quite a novelty and I'm sure will be appreciated by those who test drive or own the Celerio. It adds to that premiumness, as even some of the more expensive cars don’t have this feature. With a light foot, upshifts take place at roughly every 10 km/h. Translated, 20 km/h brings on 2nd gear, 30 km/h for 3rd, 40 km/h for 4th and so on. At 40 km/h, the Celerio was already in 4th @ 1200-1400 rpm. The minute that rpm levels drop to 1100 or below, the transmission will downshift to a lower gear. We'll discuss fuel efficiency some more in the upcoming engine post.

Overtaking on the Highway takes some getting used to as well. The AMT executes the initial half of the overtaking manoeuvre well. The engine gives out a nice blip on kick-down, and it's even willing to drop two or three ratios at a time (e.g. 5th to 2nd). However, the scary thing is that, as you're passing another vehicle and building up the revvs, the AMT sometimes decides to upshift mid-manoeuvre! This results in a break in the acceleration when you need it the most. The shift is fairly slow too, not urgent like it would be if you were driving a manual. The workaround: before overtaking, it's always better to put the gearbox in manual mode, which will then hold the gear all the way to the redline, and prevent a premature upshift. When used right on the highway, the AMT is better than some lazy CVTs in the market (the Nissan Micra's CVT, for example).

Manual Mode has other advantages, especially for the more enthusiastic drivers who want a higher degree of control. Other than the Grand i10 and the pricey Polo TSI, this is the only hatchback to offer a tiptronic-like manual mode below 20 lakhs. On the bottom right of the MID gear indicator, there is a small alphabet: 'M' for Manual & 'D' for Drive, indicating the mode that you are currently in. We recommend shifting to manual mode before overtaking, when you need engine braking and of course, the times that you are in the mood for some fun. In manual mode, the AMT will hold a gear to the redline. Conversely, if the rpm drops too low, the AMT will downshift to prevent the motor from stalling. If you try to upshift at too low an rpm or downshift at too high an rpm, the AMT will ignore your instructions and flash the gear indicator in protest. It's always a good idea to switch to manual mode before your favourite ghat section, because it prevents sudden and unsettling gear changes mid-corner. 0-100 times are also best tried in manual mode, but they certainly won't match up to the true manual Celerio. Why? Because there's no way to dump the clutch and get a hard launch on the AMT, along with the faster gearshifts that a good driver can pull off. An advantage of manual mode is that you can increase the amount of engine braking when going downhill. It's quite effective, although not as aggressive as in a pure MT. A good thing is that the AMT doesn’t ever free-wheel (some dual-clutch ATs do). It always keeps the clutch & gearbox engaged, resulting in better control.

Hill starts require that you use the correct procedure in order to minimize rollback. There's even a sticker on the driver's door advising you to use the handbrake to aid starting on an incline. When starting off on a hill, switching your foot immediately from the brake to accelerator will result in the Celerio rolling back....before it engages the clutch and moves forward. On a steep hill, the car can roll back as much as 3 feet before moving forward. It's dangerous, and also bad for the clutch in terms of wear & tear and overheating. In fact, there's a special 'transaxle overheating' warning light just for this. Thus, it's best to use the parking brake when starting off on an incline. This results in only an inch or two of rollback and a very gradual start-off. A 'Hill Hold' braking function would have been a neat addition to the Celerio.

I'd also like to add that the AMT manages the clutch & gearbox a lot better than sub-par drivers out there. There's no doubt that it is more talented than a below-average driver in choosing when to shift, how to shift and what gear to be in.

Understanding the AMT better:

• If you're in Drive and pull up the handbrake (say, at a traffic light), the clutch will automatically disengage. This is far more convenient than shifting to Neutral each time you stop. To start moving again, you need to lower the handbrake and press the accelerator. If you don't press the accelerator, the clutch will remain disengaged and the car could roll forwards or backwards (depending on the slope of the road).

• Further to the point above, for regular usage, there is no need to use Neutral, other than for starting the Celerio. Even when you're stationary in 'D', just engage the handbrake and it's as good as Neutral.

• Ask the gearbox to do anything that it doesn’t want to do, and you'll see the gear indicator blinking. Downshifting at too high an RPM? It will blink. Upshifting at too low an RPM? It will blink.

• If you're not in Neutral with the brake pedal pressed, the engine won't start. Instead, the car will blink the gear indicator and beep constantly.

• If you're in Neutral and shift to Drive without pressing the brake, the system beeps and the car remains in Neutral. The 'N' sign flashes and the brake icon shows up. You have to switch back to Neutral, press the brake and then select Drive.

• There is an audible clunk from the engine bay when you switch between Drive, Reverse & Neutral (but not when it shifts up or down gears in 'Drive' mode).

• If you're lugging uphill (not pressing the accelerator) in 1st gear and the incline or load gets too much for the car, it won't stall like a manual transmission would. Instead, the AMT will just disengage the clutch and you start rolling backwards!

• If the AMT was tuned for comfort or smoothness (rather than fuel economy), it would prevent the transmission from getting confused at times, and having to hunt up and down gears so often.

• Not sure how the AMT will behave once the clutch starts to wear out. Will AMT clutches have to be replaced sooner than MT clutches? Proper clutch service and setting will play an important role with the Celerio AMT. And remember, use the handbrake on inclines!

• Turning off the vehicle with the transmission in Neutral leaves you entirely reliant on the handbrake, when parked on an incline. We suggest you turn your Celerio off in either "D" or "R" instead, which will provide a secondary brake force (just like parking a manual car in 1st or Reverse).
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Re: (ASK) Transmisi AT Wagon R (AGS/AMT)

Post by b0ku »

berarti kayak bawa ferarri jaman F360 Modena donk bedanya kalo karimun masukin giginya kayak matic konvesional dan defaultnya ud Auto sedangkan ferarri gw musti masukin via paddle + buat masukin ke gigi 1 abis itu kalo mau auto musti teken tombol di tengah terus kalo lepas rem mobilnya gak mau maju karena gak punya torque conventer jd musti injek gas biasanya yg model gini kena macet malah tambah amsiong kaki kanannya :ngacir:
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Re: (ASK) Transmisi AT Wagon R (AGS/AMT)

Post by newrubble »

out of topic

jauh sblm amt ataupun ags

ini yg sy pakai dulu ssdh benz hydrak
masih manual shift without clutch pedal
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Re: (ASK) Transmisi AT Wagon R (AGS/AMT)

Post by KodokPushUp »

Jadi ganti gigi nya mirip motor bebek ya om rubble?
Kalo motor bebek kan bisa ditekan setengah, biar gigi ga engaged dulu (mirip pake kopling)
Kalo di "manual shift without clutch pedal" bisa ga om?
Buat mobil2 underpower kayaknya mesti pake cara ini buat bikin spin ban :ungg:
Ikutan trend penghuni garasi:

-antek medket liar entah milik siapa
-ayam milik tetangga depan rumah yg kadang nyasar
-tikus yg siap diracun :evil:
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Re: (ASK) Transmisi AT Wagon R (AGS/AMT)

Post by keong »

Celerio juga kebagian AGS ? Waah menarik, katanya harganya di range 150@an celerio ini :mky_02:

Oia transmisi AGS ini bedanya sama triptonik biasa, kalo misal kita pake mode manual di triptonik biasa begitu rpm udh tinggi dia upshift sendiri, kalo asg ini sampe jebol tu mesin gabakal upshift kecuali kita upshift sendiri, buat ababil ky ane yang memimpikan red line di mbl matic kayanya asik :upss: :ungg:
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Re: (ASK) Transmisi AT Wagon R (AGS/AMT)

Post by billyd1773dz »

Bannyak triptonik biasa yang sampai redline ga akan shift kok om...... seperti captiva, fb dll......

AT non triptonik pindahin ke 1/L hajar redline juga g akan pindah

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Re: (ASK) Transmisi AT Wagon R (AGS/AMT)

Post by gilaasepeda »

mantabs nich buat tebasss bbassss si duo kalengan alay and ayag .......
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Re: (ASK) Transmisi AT Wagon R (AGS/AMT)

Post by keong »

billyd1773dz wrote:Bannyak triptonik biasa yang sampai redline ga akan shift kok om...... seperti captiva, fb dll......

AT non triptonik pindahin ke 1/L hajar redline juga g akan pindah

:beer:
Ohh gitu ya om bill, maklum matic yg biasa ane pake cuma seonggok ipah, yah ketauan deh ane wawasan nyobain mobilny masih newbie :mky_01: :big_slap:

Dengan harga kira2 120jt (utk wagoon R) dapat mobil baru plus ASG ini mobil bisa dikategorikan value for money ga om diantara kompetitor lain ? airbag katanya masih belum muncul di tipe ini :big_think:
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Re: (ASK) Transmisi AT Wagon R (AGS/AMT)

Post by ginting »

kayaknya prinsip kerjanya mirip Proton Savvy, yang pakai AMT,..
atau sama kayak zaman tahun 90-an ada namanya Easy Clucth.
Tapi sekrg Easy Clutch sudah tak ada kabar berita.

Soal daya tahan, mari kita lihat apakah hydrolik pengungkit perpindahan gigi di Karimun ini reliable gak.
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Re: (ASK) Transmisi AT Wagon R (AGS/AMT)

Post by newrubble »

KodokPushUp wrote:Jadi ganti gigi nya mirip motor bebek ya om rubble?
Kalo motor bebek kan bisa ditekan setengah, biar gigi di "manual shift without clutch pedal" bisa ga om?
Buat mobil2 underpower kayaknya mesti pake cara ini buat bikin spin ban :ungg:
ini sama dg manual hanya fungsi clutch pedal diganti pressurized tube di belakang lampu belakang kiri dg pressure ambil dr exhaust fumes

kalo susah shift artinya perlu extra pressure jadi injak has pedal dulu dikit saat netral tapi itu jarang terjadi

kalo tdk hand shift maka lampu indilator di bawah speedo akan pindah dr hijau ke merah n kalp diniarlan maka stickshift akan ke netral

vw sbt ini semi automatic clutch

sy pakai dulu vw 1303s yg tanpa tachometer ...hanya ada indicator hikau n merah

yg LS selain indicator juga ada tacho n umder dash shelf
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Re: (ASK) Transmisi AT Wagon R (AGS/AMT)

Post by billyd1773dz »

easy clutch seperti namanya hanya clutchnya aja yg otomatis, perpindahan gigi harus manual. tidak ada perpindahan gigi otomatis. aftermarket yg krng sukses di pasaran.

ini mirip savvy, namun techny uda beda lebih dari 10thn... seharusny uda banyak perbaikan.


biar TD dan waktu yg menjawab wkwkwkw :D

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