Mobil "best-buy-for-de-buck" di sekitaran 50 - 70

Demonium · Post by **Demonium** » Wed Mar 31, 2004 5:03

makin curiga aja ama baron
pasti org marketing honda nih

Takumi · Post by **Takumi** » Wed Mar 31, 2004 5:08

Demonium wrote: males ah...mendingan eterna...
kurang percaya sih ama oom takumi hihihiih
aneh ga, ga punya duit bisa ngimport film doang dari jepang
sapa kaga curiga?

ada ya accord genio..baru denger hohohooho
terkahir denger sih cielo

hehe sory hehe salah maksud gue cielo bukan genio.., knp yah gue selalu kebalik2 yah hehe...

soal mobil gue sumpeh standar abis.. nih kalo gak percaya..

Demonium · Post by **Demonium** » Wed Mar 31, 2004 14:46

ada foto baut2 nya ga hehehehe
ga keliatan kalo gitu mah

DigitALL · Post by **DigitALL** » Wed Mar 31, 2004 14:49

To : Demo

Bukan digi tak ! Tapi DigitALL...

To : Takumi

Thanks bung buat info2 seputar Eterna-nya. Saya serap banyak info dari bung.

Demonium · Post by **Demonium** » Wed Mar 31, 2004 19:18

bodo ah
enak kan digitak hihiihihihi

DigitALL · Post by **DigitALL** » Thu Apr 01, 2004 7:42

Gitu amat sih bung Demominum ini... Hehehe ... =P

Demonium · Post by **Demonium** » Thu Apr 01, 2004 11:37

bodo ahhhhhh
DI JI TAK

ihihhihihiihii keren abis

electrofuq · Post by **electrofuq** » Fri Apr 02, 2004 9:45

waw pada jadi balap nih ?

kesimpulannya lancer gti..
btw antara twin cam dan DOHC apa bedanya?

Demonium · Post by **Demonium** » Sat Apr 03, 2004 0:28

twincam = 2 cam
DOHC = Double Over Head Camshaft

bedanya apa ?
gini, ambil contoh toyota corolla twincam aja ya, itu kan ada versi SE-i dan versi GT-i

yg Se-i itu mesinnya 4 AF saya ga begitu inget mengenai kode mesin ini, yg pasti
4 = 4 silinder
A = seri mesin nya
F = twin cam, tapi banci
kok banci sih ?
soalnya antara camshaft in dan out, terhubung oleh sebuah gear lagi, jadi tidak independent, dalam artian ada hubungan mekanisme kerja secara langsung antara cam in dan out tadi

bisa di tune ga kalo yang banci
tentu bisa, tapi karena connecting gear tadi maka hasil yg di harapkan dari mesin lebih ke aspek efisiensi

se tahu saya istilah twincam ini ada versi banci nya cuman di mesin dari merk Toyota saja, karena pada mesin dari merk lain seperti Nissan juga memakai istilah twincam, tetapi sekali lagi setahu saya tidak mengeluarkan versi bancinya,

so conclusion :
DOHC = TwinCam

sekian terima kasih

muachhhhhhhhh

Demonium · Post by **Demonium** » Sat Apr 03, 2004 0:33

duh lupa bahas yg DOHC

pada real DOHC tidak ada connecting gearnya antara cam in dan out, kedua cam benar2 berdiri independent, pada mesin ini lebih di kejar faktor power produce, termasuk torque

makanya mesin real DOHC powernya jauh di atas DOHC banci

deanz · Post by **deanz** » Sat Apr 03, 2004 9:31

twincam dihubungkan oleh gear dan DOHC oleh belt. So keduanya gak bener2 independent.
Yang membedakan adalah arah putaran kem inlet dan outlet, twincam berlawanan arah dan DOHC searah.

Yg gw bingung kenapa gak langsung aja DOHC, kok pake bikin twincam??? Ada pertimbangan khusus seperti biaya produksi, ringkasnya mesin, karakter mesin, dll?????

edward · Post by **edward** » Sat Apr 03, 2004 12:09

Hehe bung demo ngasih kuliah 2menit nya mantep kali ttg dohc.
Jadi banyak belajar macem2 di sm ini.
Ditunggu tentang topik yg lainnya lo?

it's fun,it's joy,it's educative

it is SM

Demonium · Post by **Demonium** » Sat Apr 03, 2004 13:59

interupsi dikit
independent maksud saya bukan berdiri sendiri, jelas terhubung karena camshaft kan utk membuka dan menutup katup, kalo berdiiri sendiri, gimana hubungannya dengan posisi torak/piston ?
gimana bisa tahu kapan piston di top / bottom ?
hehehhehe sorry bukan ngelawan ya

kalo yg twincam......ga semua paek gear kok
itu yg nissan punya twincam pake belt hihihhhii

tujuan nya ya sekali lagi efisiensi bbm

deanz · Post by **deanz** » Sun Apr 04, 2004 6:58

nah geto dunk nulisnya, jgn asal nulis independent yaaa, bisa salah kaprah
Soal nissan sentra, kayaknya kalo gak salah liat tulisan di bodynya DOHC deh (CMIIW)

nah yg saya belum ngerti, hubungannya apa antara efisiensi bbm ama twincam/DOHC????

logika saya belum masuk nih, karena saya pernah bongkar mesin toyota twincam tapi DOHC belum, pencerahan dunk......

Demonium · Post by **Demonium** » Sun Apr 04, 2004 7:51

lait di sentra yg coupe ya deans
ada tulisan di pintu kanan bag bawah
twincam
16 valve
120 PS / .....RPM ----> power produce
...Nm / ..... RPM ----> torque

masalah efisiensi ya
ntar...cari sumber dulu kenapanya ya
dah rada lupa, harus liat hint book dulu
hihihiiihi maklum dah uzur

Takumi · Post by **Takumi** » Sun Apr 04, 2004 8:07

basically kalo "F" means udah pasti twincam bukan DOHC. kalo "G" dah pasti DOHC.
nah sekarang, gini, regardless what is written on the "first digits", kalo the "last digit" contain "G", it means DOHC. conversy, kalo the "last digit" contain "F", it means twincam.

for example:
- 2ZZ-FE: variable intake and exhaust cam. bukan DOHC soalnya "the last digit" contain "F" which indicating "economy engine" not sport aspired.
- 1ZZ-FE: variable intake and exhaust cam. bukan DOHC, same explanation as above
- 1JZ-FE: variable exhaust cam only, bukan DOHC, same explanation as above
- 2JZ-FE: variable exhaust cam only, bukan DOHC, same explanation as above
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- 2ZZ-GE: variable intake and exhaust cam, DOHC soalnya "the last digit" contain "G" which indicating sport aspirated engine design.
- 1ZZ-GE: variable intake and exhaust cam, DOHC, read above explantion
- 1JZ-GE: variable exhaust cam only, DOHC, read above explanation
- 2JZ-GE: variable exhaust cam only, DOHC, read above explanation

so on and so forth...

G = aggressive cam angle alias sport (wide angle, 45 degrees or more between the intake and exhaust valves)
F = "economical" twin cam alias apa yak... economy (narrow angle, around 22 degrees)
T = turbocharged
Z = supercharged
E = fuel injection
i = single point fuel injection
L = transverse mounted engine (seems to be an obsolete code)
B = twin carbs (only used on non-twin cam engines, obsolete code)
R = air injection
S = swirl intake ports (only a few made in mid '80s)
S = direct injection & swirl pot pistons (starting from '97/98)
U = emission package (Japan)
C = emission package (California)
LPG = LPG fuel

Toyota FE Series Engines

(3/5SFE / 4/7AFE / 4/5EFE / 1ZZFE / and V6 / V8s)

The various FE series engines (using the FE head design) are the most thoroughly developed and purpose tuned Toyota power plants. In the USA, 98% of current models Toyotas use this engine/head design. The FE 4 valve per cylinder, narrow-angle Twin Cam heads (on the various Toyota blocks) are the reason for the amazing response and smoothness of the current generation Toyota motors. The high torque characteristic designed into these engines give the driver all the advantages of the Twin Cam head design- plus low-end torque and fuel economy. Torque is the reason why these engines respond quickly and smoothly. The performance band has been engineered to provide power from low RPM to the designated redline.

There has been a lot of requests for parts and modifications for these engines, but unfortunately trying to raise the RPM band (or changing cams) will negate all the built-in attributes of these engines. A camshaft change to raise the power band higher, will result in the loss of low-end torque and idling problems. Drivability will suffer and the trade off will leave the customer with a compromised engine, trying to work against the ECU program and engine design.

By comparison, the performance oriented GE versions of the same series engines, (if available on the sporty models)- offer about a 20% horsepower advantage- but at a loss in low RPM response and torque. The GE heads are more of the true Twin Cam design: wide-angle valves, long duration cams- suited for high RPM and high output- but at the sacrifice of throttle response in the lower RPM levels.

There are improvements that can be made to the FE engines- but the Toyota engineered power band should not be altered. The ECU program and Camshaft profiles, if changed will result in a loss of drivability and risk internal damage. You cannot do a better job than Toyota on coaxing power from these series engines, and needless to say, stay street-legal.

Upgrading these engines, is of course still possible: intake systems, exhaust components, ignition upgrades all help in fine-tuning these engines. The rule to follow and keep in mind is that all modifications are basically external in nature. The only exception being pistons- to increase or decrease compression- within the same RPM band. Turbocharging and/or supercharging will help- but keep in mind that based on the design parameters (again) these engines were designed for response- meaning lightweight internals: con rods/crankshaft (as compared to the sportier GE series engines).

The 1ZZFE and 2ZZGE are ToyotaÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s latest 4 cylinder engines. Both are all Ã¢â‚¬â€œaluminum 1800cc 16-valve engines with variable cam timing, matching the current offerings of other manufacturers. This is ToyotaÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s first all aluminum 4 cylinder block. The 1ZZFE introduced in 1988, without variable cam timing- was updated with VVT, when the 2ZZFE debuted in 2000. The 2ZZGE- was further enhanced with a variable lift feature.

The variable cam timing feature addresses the problem associated with the old FE engines. Without VVT, the old engines seemed to run abruptly out of breathe- a function of their smooth power delivery that promised Ã¢â‚¬Å“moreÃ¢â‚¬Â- but hit a performance wall. The VVT 1ZZFE and VVTi 2ZZGE- now have the performance surge to satisfy the driver. (Of course people will still want more, which is why Toysport is in business.)

It is very interesting to note the difference between the two engines. The 1ZZFE and 2ZZGE are of the same displacement, but their bore and stroke are different. The 1ZZFE Ã¢â‚¬Å“izzyÃ¢â‚¬Â with the FE head is the quick response, high torque model- has a longer stroke ratio, to further improve the torque characteristic. The 2ZZGE Ã¢â‚¬Å“duzzyÃ¢â‚¬Â with the sports type GE head is the high RPM, higher HP unit- with a square bore / stroke ratio. This allows it to rev and deliver power in the higher RPM range.

The driving characteristic of both engines are dramatically evident. In the 2000 Celica, where both engines are offered- the GT with the 1ZZFE is easier and smoother to drive- more responsive. The GTS with the 2ZZGE starts of lazier, and need lots of pedal- but ultimately more HP. Which is a good contrast- drivers now know the trade-off between drivability and horsepower. A lot of people who tested the cars opted for the more responsive GT model, although they were initially looking for power. The power band characteristic of the two engines offer a good choice- chooses which is more important.

A recurring question- why did the MRS end with the 1ZZFE? Overall, the 1ZZFE was more compatible to the overall concept. The 2ZZGE would need more attention driving (to extract the power)- detracting from the fun aspect of cruising. For diehards- yes we can do the 2ZZGE conversion.

From ToyotaÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s early pioneering Twin Cams, to the succeeding multi-valve DOHC engines, to this new generation of variable cam timing and lift unitsÃ¢â‚¬Â¦..Toyota continues to be the worldÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s largest Twin Cam manufacturer. As a review: Toyota Twin Cams have seen it all- 2, 4, and 5 valves; four, six, eight, twelve cylinders; normally aspirated, supercharged, turbo, and twin-turbo; gas, propane, and diesel. TVIS, non-TVIS, and individual throttle bodies. Been there, done that

Kesimpulan: mesin Berbasis F itu buat economic , tenaga udah ada di rpm bawah, tetapi atas gak segahar serie G , dan seri G Tenaga bawah 3000 emang kurang cuman setelah itu MAut banget..

PS : jgn pusang yak.. pokoknya ada yang nanya .. biar jelas..

electrofuq · Post by **electrofuq** » Sun Apr 04, 2004 9:16

jd mungkin istilahnya twincam itu peminimalan dari DOHC tp dasar nya sama, 2 cam yah ?

Takumi · Post by **Takumi** » Sun Apr 04, 2004 11:13

iya cuman Twincam Sproket nya Lebih berdekatan .. dan pake 1 sproket..

Demonium · Post by **Demonium** » Mon Apr 05, 2004 14:28

ltakumi copy paste darimana tuh ?
hebat sourcenya, ato jgn2 di ketik lagi

Takumi · Post by **Takumi** » Mon Apr 05, 2004 15:25

Gue ada data2 nya di kompi dunk komplit
gila ajah gue ngetik segitu .. besok2 gak bisa nyoblos yang ada...
sebagian gue edit dikit dan ada sebagian gue ketik juga..

deanz · Post by **deanz** » Tue Apr 06, 2004 12:28

Thanks a lot Takumi, good job!!!!
Ngerti gw, perbedaan twincam dan DOHC adalah durasi kem dan sudut antara intake & exhaust valve. Kalo Twincam sekitar 22 deg dan DOHC lebih dari 45 deg. So mesin twincam lebih ramping karena kemnya berdekatan dan menghubungkannya cukup dengan gear sehingga arah putaran sproket intake dan exhaust berlawanan.
So yang membedakan adalah sudut intake dan exhaust valve ya, bukan arah putaran sproket kem spt perkiraan gw.

Cuma yg gw bingung kok bisa beda sudut valve mempengaruhi karakter mesin. Kuliah teknik mesin dulu deh gw...hehe.....

DigitALL · Post by **DigitALL** » Tue Apr 06, 2004 15:29

Ga ngerti ah... awam banget kalo ginian. Hehehe ...
But thanks for all the info !

aldo · Post by **aldo** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 3:05

hehe kl sering nongkrong disini bahas mesin pas ke bengkel ntar di mekanik bengong ini anak kok kayaknya lebih ngerti dari aku..hahaha gawat ntar disuruh bongkar sendiri..

DigitALL · Post by **DigitALL** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 15:52

Ngga bakal disuruh bongkar sendiri lah, paling juga bantu liat-in. Hehehe ...

electrofuq · Post by **electrofuq** » Thu Apr 08, 2004 12:24

heheheh.. nanti pas ngebongkar mesin, si mekaniknya yg nanya ke kita gmana dan bagaimana cara ngoprek mesin..