Tanya - Saat Berhenti Transmisi di N, D atau P ?

[turbine888]

Kalo saya berhubung mobil pake DSG, kalo di lampu merah wajib di N biar kopling bisa fully disengage dan juga gk buat mecha panas.

Kalo lagi merayap dikit” waktu macet, saya kasih jarak sama mobil depan baru gerak dan perseneling diposisikan di mode manual (tahan gigi 1) supaya mechatronic tidak panas ganti” gigi terus. Cara ini saya dpt dari mekanik beres dan tmn” komunitas.

Sementara itu, P cuma dipake waktu parkir aja dan sebelum masuk P dari R/D, sy selalu taruh di N dan parking brake dulu.

[maastricht889]

Oh ya, ada om2 yg tau penjelasan nya nggak ya. Sodara saya kadang kalo bawa matic, pas kondisi jalan (posisi D) tau2 dinetralin ama dia. Itu bahayanya dimana ya? Kedua, kadang sopir saya kalo mundurin mobil di turunan bukan nya masuk R, tapi masuk N terus hand brake lepas (jadi kaya naik mobil manual. Itu menurut saya tindakan konyol dan salah banget, tapi ngga tau penjelasan nya gimana. Mohon infonya

[Wistuwis]

Matic jadul saya gak pernah ke P.
Parkir pun di N. Disimpen di garasi juga di N. Hehe...

Yg matic baru kalo parkir harus di P soalnya kalau matikan mesin posisi tuas ada di N efeknya mobil gak bisa dikunci pakai remote.
Fitur yg unfaedah menurut sy

[adityabp]

Oh ya, ada om2 yg tau penjelasan nya nggak ya. Sodara saya kadang kalo bawa matic, pas kondisi jalan (posisi D) tau2 dinetralin ama dia. Itu bahayanya dimana ya? Kedua, kadang sopir saya kalo mundurin mobil di turunan bukan nya masuk R, tapi masuk N terus hand brake lepas (jadi kaya naik mobil manual. Itu menurut saya tindakan konyol dan salah banget, tapi ngga tau penjelasan nya gimana. Mohon infonya

Jangan dibiasain om. Apalagi gelinding mundur.
Matik bisa jebol krn tekanan balik oli matik yg mendadak besar krn dorongan bobot mobil.

[adityabp]

Matic jadul saya gak pernah ke P.
Parkir pun di N. Disimpen di garasi juga di N. Hehe...

Yg matic baru kalo parkir harus di P soalnya kalau matikan mesin posisi tuas ada di N efeknya mobil gak bisa dikunci pakai remote.
Fitur yg unfaedah menurut sy

Seberapa jadul om?
AFAIK, dari jaman dulu kalo parkir gak di P, kunci kontak gak bisa dicabut.

[Wistuwis]

Matic jadul saya gak pernah ke P.
Parkir pun di N. Disimpen di garasi juga di N. Hehe...

Yg matic baru kalo parkir harus di P soalnya kalau matikan mesin posisi tuas ada di N efeknya mobil gak bisa dikunci pakai remote.
Fitur yg unfaedah menurut sy

Seberapa jadul om?
AFAIK, dari jaman dulu kalo parkir gak di P, kunci kontak gak bisa dicabut.

Picanto 2004 om.
Klo nyalain mesin juga mudah. Asal di N/P bisa distart hidup tanpa harus injek rem.
Malah simpel pakai mobil ini drpd mobil kekinian. Fitur2 yg ada sepertinya malah bikin ribet, bukannya memudahkan.
Sorry jadi OOT om TS

[jivos]

.... kalo bawa matic, pas kondisi jalan (posisi D) tau2 dinetralin ama dia. Itu bahayanya dimana ya?

Kedua, kadang sopir saya kalo mundurin mobil di turunan bukan nya masuk R, tapi masuk N terus hand brake lepas (jadi kaya naik mobil manual. Itu menurut saya tindakan konyol dan salah banget, tapi ngga tau penjelasan nya gimana. Mohon infonya

d luaran...running on N di anggap illegal/tdk d anjurakan krn...
1. hilngnya control/kendali atas pedal gas utk forward/menggerakn mbl sewaktu".
2. hilangnya engine brake assist yg mbantu decelerate pergerakan mbl (selain brake sys.)

==========

back topic d atas:
klo liat literatur yg m'bahas topic ini...
memang tdk d sarankan pindah k N di stop lamp. kekhawatira matic akan aus/fc jd hemat kurang beralasan/less risk d banding shifting fm N to D then accelerate when lamp bcome green...more costing/contribute k ausnya matic/ borosnya fc.

bbrp pendapat d forum mechanic

When the car is in D and you start the engine the hydraulic pump in the automatic transmission is not providing fluid pressure until the engine starts.

This fluid pressure is used to engage clutches in the transmission to engage first gear or reverse.

An automatic transmission does not have gears like a manual transmission which are physically meshed into one another or engaged.

The gears in an automatic transmission are always engaged or locked in but they are coupled to the drive shaft by multiple different clutches that are selected either by you or automatically. This is called the planetary gear and clutch system and it is very difficult to conceptualize.

In an automatic transmissions N is actually the same as D in that none of the clutches are engaged except in D there is a mechanical connection to an internal transmission brake. This brake has nothing to do with your wheel brakes and it come on mechanically so the engine does not need to be running for it to work.

In D when you’re at a stop the main forward clutches are engaged and the torque converter is providing pressure to rotate the forward gear but it does not rub or wear when it is doing this. Because of this resistance to free rotation in the transmission the engine begins to slow. In a modern car there is an idle control valve which the computer opens to increase air entering the engine so the engine does not stall. So there is actually more air entering and the computer senses this and adds a bit more fuel as well. So in D at the light your car will use a little more fuel than if it was in N.

Also the wheel brakes are not rubbing but are stopped and they will not wear at all while holding the forward creep of the car when in D.

The forward creep is caused by the transmissions torque converter. There is nothing slipping or wearing or heating up to any significant extent in there. It’s all done hydraulically and nothing is wearing to worry about. BUT!!!! When you are in N and the engine is turning and the wheels are stopped then for this to occur the main forward clutch is disengaged and it is SLIGHTLY SLIPPING. So the clutch plates are wearing.

So you are actually wearing out the main wear component in an automatic transmission being the clutch plates if you shift from D to N at a stop. The only advantage is your saving a very small amount on fuel.

Personally I DO NOT and I have been told by an automatic transmission engineer that you should never shift the transmission from D to N at the lights. The reason being you are wearing your clutch plates in your transmissions. It also gets hotter because of the friction and the dirtier transmission oil then contributes to other component failures.

Also it’s dangerous to be sitting there in N. You may need to drive away all of a sudden to avoid an accident but in N there is less chance of do this. You also may select the wrong setting like R when you wanted D.

If N should be selected at the lights then engineers would have incorporated this into the design. But they did not. On some fuel saving cars the engine now shuts off at the lights so obviously N is selected automatically by the computer during the shutdown period so the car can be restarted. But the engine is not turning so the clutch plates are not slipping and wearing in this type of fuel efficient car.

penjelasan sanggahan atas pendapat yg beda

Torque converters don’t have “Dumps”. I think this person is taking about the pressure relief valve which is relieving hydraulic fluid pressure created by the transmissions hydraulic oil pump. The oil pump is driven direct from the engine. It is independent from the torque converter. The pump is working if the transmission is in any selection. So in N it is still working. There will be no difference in heat created from the fluid pressure either in D or N. The difference is in N the main clutch is disengaged and is forced to slip and wear also giving off additional heat. It’s the reverse to what this person said. So keep it in D at the lights which is what the engineers designed the car to do.

lalu fungsi N ?

The main purpose of neutral on an automatic is for towing or pushing the car. Obviously you can't push it with the transmission in park, and if you tow it with the transmission in gear or in park and the drive wheels are in contact with the ground, you'll ruin your transmission or your tires or both. I'm sure there are some other uses too, but they're sufficiently rare that they probably don't need to be mentioned.

Neutral is there for special cases, such as if/when the car needs to be pulled up onto a flatbed for towing. Other than cases like that, you can just pretend that the "N" notch doesn't even exist. :-

https://mechanics.stackexchange.com/que ... ansmission

====
pendapat yg sm,"things not to do on ATcar"
1. EE..menit 7:17
https://youtu.be/6zzEtxJkC7Y
2. bright side ...menit 2:58
https://youtu.be/6zzEtxJkC7Y
3. right stuff...use of neutral in AT
https://youtu.be/KloSwZ1qgOs

[maastricht889]

.... kalo bawa matic, pas kondisi jalan (posisi D) tau2 dinetralin ama dia. Itu bahayanya dimana ya?

Kedua, kadang sopir saya kalo mundurin mobil di turunan bukan nya masuk R, tapi masuk N terus hand brake lepas (jadi kaya naik mobil manual. Itu menurut saya tindakan konyol dan salah banget, tapi ngga tau penjelasan nya gimana. Mohon infonya

d luaran...running on N di anggap illegal/tdk d anjurakan krn...
1. hilngnya control/kendali atas pedal gas utk forward/menggerakn mbl sewaktu".
2. hilangnya engine brake assist yg mbantu decelerate pergerakan mbl (selain brake sys.)

==========

back topic d atas:
klo liat literatur yg m'bahas topic ini...
memang tdk d sarankan pindah k N di stop lamp. kekhawatira matic akan aus/fc jd hemat kurang beralasan/less risk d banding shifting fm N to D then accelerate when lamp bcome green...more costing/contribute k ausnya matic/ borosnya fc.

bbrp pendapat d forum mechanic

When the car is in D and you start the engine the hydraulic pump in the automatic transmission is not providing fluid pressure until the engine starts.

This fluid pressure is used to engage clutches in the transmission to engage first gear or reverse.

An automatic transmission does not have gears like a manual transmission which are physically meshed into one another or engaged.

The gears in an automatic transmission are always engaged or locked in but they are coupled to the drive shaft by multiple different clutches that are selected either by you or automatically. This is called the planetary gear and clutch system and it is very difficult to conceptualize.

In an automatic transmissions N is actually the same as D in that none of the clutches are engaged except in D there is a mechanical connection to an internal transmission brake. This brake has nothing to do with your wheel brakes and it come on mechanically so the engine does not need to be running for it to work.

In D when you’re at a stop the main forward clutches are engaged and the torque converter is providing pressure to rotate the forward gear but it does not rub or wear when it is doing this. Because of this resistance to free rotation in the transmission the engine begins to slow. In a modern car there is an idle control valve which the computer opens to increase air entering the engine so the engine does not stall. So there is actually more air entering and the computer senses this and adds a bit more fuel as well. So in D at the light your car will use a little more fuel than if it was in N.

Also the wheel brakes are not rubbing but are stopped and they will not wear at all while holding the forward creep of the car when in D.

The forward creep is caused by the transmissions torque converter. There is nothing slipping or wearing or heating up to any significant extent in there. It’s all done hydraulically and nothing is wearing to worry about. BUT!!!! When you are in N and the engine is turning and the wheels are stopped then for this to occur the main forward clutch is disengaged and it is SLIGHTLY SLIPPING. So the clutch plates are wearing.

So you are actually wearing out the main wear component in an automatic transmission being the clutch plates if you shift from D to N at a stop. The only advantage is your saving a very small amount on fuel.

Personally I DO NOT and I have been told by an automatic transmission engineer that you should never shift the transmission from D to N at the lights. The reason being you are wearing your clutch plates in your transmissions. It also gets hotter because of the friction and the dirtier transmission oil then contributes to other component failures.

Also it’s dangerous to be sitting there in N. You may need to drive away all of a sudden to avoid an accident but in N there is less chance of do this. You also may select the wrong setting like R when you wanted D.

If N should be selected at the lights then engineers would have incorporated this into the design. But they did not. On some fuel saving cars the engine now shuts off at the lights so obviously N is selected automatically by the computer during the shutdown period so the car can be restarted. But the engine is not turning so the clutch plates are not slipping and wearing in this type of fuel efficient car.

penjelasan sanggahan atas pendapat yg beda

Torque converters don’t have “Dumps”. I think this person is taking about the pressure relief valve which is relieving hydraulic fluid pressure created by the transmissions hydraulic oil pump. The oil pump is driven direct from the engine. It is independent from the torque converter. The pump is working if the transmission is in any selection. So in N it is still working. There will be no difference in heat created from the fluid pressure either in D or N. The difference is in N the main clutch is disengaged and is forced to slip and wear also giving off additional heat. It’s the reverse to what this person said. So keep it in D at the lights which is what the engineers designed the car to do.

lalu fungsi N ?

The main purpose of neutral on an automatic is for towing or pushing the car. Obviously you can't push it with the transmission in park, and if you tow it with the transmission in gear or in park and the drive wheels are in contact with the ground, you'll ruin your transmission or your tires or both. I'm sure there are some other uses too, but they're sufficiently rare that they probably don't need to be mentioned.

Neutral is there for special cases, such as if/when the car needs to be pulled up onto a flatbed for towing. Other than cases like that, you can just pretend that the "N" notch doesn't even exist. :-

https://mechanics.stackexchange.com/que ... ansmission

====
pendapat yg sm,"things not to do on ATcar"
1. EE..menit 7:17
https://youtu.be/6zzEtxJkC7Y
2. bright side ...menit 2:58
https://youtu.be/6zzEtxJkC7Y
3. right stuff...use of neutral in AT
https://youtu.be/KloSwZ1qgOs

Pd intinya kl saya baca narasi dr om, kl berhenti di bangjo sebaiknya keep di D kan. Cuma dulu saya pernah liat mobkas (crv RD4 matic), pas tes jalan saya tes tu di bangjo. Saya keadaan berhenti tapi ditahan di D, selisih 2-3 detik mesin mobil tau2 mati (efek nya spt angkat kopling tll tinggi terus mesin mobil mati, lampu CE dkk nyala spt posisi ACC)

[Tampanman]

Hi rekan2

Sebagai orang awam, saya mau tanya mengenai subject diatas. Selama ini yang saya lakukan, saat mobil matic diam di lampu merah :
- Apabila lampu merah tidak terlalu lama (dibawah 50s), posisi matic saya letakan di D dengan tetap menekan rem.
- Apabila lampu merah cukup lama, posisi matic saya pindahkan di N dengan posisi handbrake on

Ternyata cara yang saya lakukan tersebut kurang sesuai kalau menurut link youtube berikut ini :
https://youtu.be/nTJ0Fp-yWQ8.

Menurut link youtube tsb , cara yg benar adalah :
-Apabila lampu merah tidak terlalu lama, posisi matic tetap di D dengan menginjak rem.
-Apabila lampu merah cukup lama, posisi matic dipindahkan ke P dengan menarik handbrake.

Jadi tidak disarankan untuk memindahkan transmisi matic ke N

Mohon info dan penjelasan suhu-suhu disini, supaya transmisi matic dapat lebih awet.

Sebagai informasi, transmisi matic yg saya gunakan adalah non cvt.

Thanks

Nonton juga om?, Kmaren saya nonton sampe pada berantem di kolom komentar, uploader yakin banget sama teorinya dan ngaku2 mekanik pinter yang ngerti transmisi...

[michaelgiri93]

Sama, saya juga gitu
Kalau berhenti di lampu merah langsung ke N.
Kalau kena macet yg berhentinya kira kira lama saya langsung ke N juga.
Masuk ke P kalau parkir aja sesuai namanya.
Kalau saya gak nyaman berhenti lama tetep di D, salah salah gak sengaja lepas rem mobil ngeloyor nabrak depan gak lucu juga.

[jivos]

Pd intinya kl saya baca narasi dr om, kl berhenti di bangjo sebaiknya keep di D kan. Cuma dulu saya pernah liat mobkas (crv RD4 matic), pas tes jalan saya tes tu di bangjo. Saya keadaan berhenti tapi ditahan di D, selisih 2-3 detik mesin mobil tau2 mati (efek nya spt angkat kopling tll tinggi terus mesin mobil mati, lampu CE dkk nyala spt posisi ACC)

*tul um better keep d D.
*mati/vibrate saat taro d D, besar kemungkinan kondisi mesin/mounting tdk dlm kondisi sehat.

[Boeds]

Ga dapat logikanya kenapa posisi stop ga baik di N daripada di D.
Kalo gitu, posisi mesin hidup di N harusnya diberi proteksi jika memang tidak baik.

Btw, berapa sih temp atf yg rawan.
Saya paling tinggi pernah sampai 93°C, waktu driving gaya geber² agresif.
Normalnya 86-88 C

[ricz]

Kalo nubie sih pas lamer ga terlalu lama ato lg creeping di kemacetan (stop n go) selalu tahan di D. Pas lampu merah agak lama baru pindahin ke N ama tarik rem tangan biar ga meluncur mobilnya

Asa ga perlu sampe di P buat berhenti di lamer, toh jg kalo medannya curam bisa posisi di N sambil tarik rem tangan...

[saturday]

Netral om. Punya sy kalau P central lock nya kebuka. Jd kalau parkir & mau turun aja baru pindah P.

Itu bisa diprogram kok, di buku manual Honda saya ada cara programnya kalau P apakah central lock mau dibuat posisi ngunci atau ngebuka. Kalau saya sih di set ke posisi ngebuka karena hanya pakai P kalau mau keluar dari mobil

Saya selalu posisi transmisi di N kalau berhenti. Kalau gelinding baru tarik rem tangan.

[Vicvic]

Hurufnya aja P(Park) yah artinya buat parkir kurang jelas apalagi?

[classicrock]

Berhenti di lampu lalin kalo masih lama ya di N kalo saya. Kalo cuma sebentar ya D, merayap di kemacetan stop n go ya D.

Kalo sudah parkir masuk N dulu, parking brake on, lepas rem kaki, baru masuk P, baru matiin mesin.

[adityabp]

Saya jadi ingat dulu waktu liburan ke bali. Nyewa livina AT, pdhal mobil yg saya pake sehari-hari MT.
Singkat cerita, pas balik ke hotel, gak bisa masuk ke halaman krn ada mobil yg mo keluar.
Saya tunggu di luar. Mobil saya handbrake, transmisi di D, lupa saya pindah ke N.
Lumayan agak lama nunggu itu mobil keluar.
Yg saya rasakan selama menunggu, ada bunyi "deg" yg cukup ngebass dibarengi mobil yg goyang ke depan.
Terjadi beberapa kali, sampai akhirnya saya ingat kalo transmisi masih D. Saya pindah ke N, kejadian tsb hilang.

Kejadian inilah yg selalu saya ingat, sampai akhirnya ketika ganti mobil ke AT, setiap kali mobil berhenti dan mesin masih nyala DAN saya sbg sopir masih ada di dlm mobil, saya selalu injek parking brake + pindah ke N krn khawatir kalo tetap D akan merusak drivetrain krn laju mobil yg ditahan.

[maastricht889]

Saya jadi ingat dulu waktu liburan ke bali. Nyewa livina AT, pdhal mobil yg saya pake sehari-hari MT.
Singkat cerita, pas balik ke hotel, gak bisa masuk ke halaman krn ada mobil yg mo keluar.
Saya tunggu di luar. Mobil saya handbrake, transmisi di D, lupa saya pindah ke N.
Lumayan agak lama nunggu itu mobil keluar.
Yg saya rasakan selama menunggu, ada bunyi "deg" yg cukup ngebass dibarengi mobil yg goyang ke depan.
Terjadi beberapa kali, sampai akhirnya saya ingat kalo transmisi masih D. Saya pindah ke N, kejadian tsb hilang.

Kejadian inilah yg selalu saya ingat, sampai akhirnya ketika ganti mobil ke AT, setiap kali mobil berhenti dan mesin masih nyala DAN saya sbg sopir masih ada di dlm mobil, saya selalu injek parking brake + pindah ke N krn khawatir kalo tetap D akan merusak drivetrain krn laju mobil yg ditahan.

Nah ini om yg saya kepo, kl kemarin om jivos bilang pas kondisi begitu (hampir sama kaya di bangjo) ttp di D nggak masalah. Cuma biasanya kl masuk D ditahan kan rpm lbh rendah, dimana itu berarti mesin jg ada stress krn perintah dr transmisi untuk ngejalanin mobil. Yg saya bingung itu, saya pernah naik mobil yg cara pakai nya gitu (owner nya sering masuk D pas brenti gitu) rasanya kaya geteran mesin kalo di N lebih kerasa dibanding owner yg biasain di N pas bangjo/stop and go.

[adityabp]

Bicara soal main clutch yg dikhawatirkan cepet aus kalo di N terlalu lama, saya kok agak skeptis ya.
Kenapa?
Mekanisme perpindahan gigi di AT memang memakai kopling (clutch pack). Kopling yg engage akan mengaktifkan gigi yg dimau, sdgkan kopling yg disengage alias SELIP akan menonaktifkan gigi.
Artinya, semua clutch pack yg ada di gearbox AT dalam satu waktu, pasti ada yg selip dan ada yg tidak, tergantung gigi mana yg sdg aktif.

[adityabp]

BTW, akhirnya saya mengerti kenapa ATF ada anti-shrudder.

[kunaskun]

Hi rekan2

Sebagai orang awam, saya mau tanya mengenai subject diatas. Selama ini yang saya lakukan, saat mobil matic diam di lampu merah :
- Apabila lampu merah tidak terlalu lama (dibawah 50s), posisi matic saya letakan di D dengan tetap menekan rem.
- Apabila lampu merah cukup lama, posisi matic saya pindahkan di N dengan posisi handbrake on

Ternyata cara yang saya lakukan tersebut kurang sesuai kalau menurut link youtube berikut ini :
https://youtu.be/nTJ0Fp-yWQ8.

Menurut link youtube tsb , cara yg benar adalah :
-Apabila lampu merah tidak terlalu lama, posisi matic tetap di D dengan menginjak rem.
-Apabila lampu merah cukup lama, posisi matic dipindahkan ke P dengan menarik handbrake.

Jadi tidak disarankan untuk memindahkan transmisi matic ke N

Mohon info dan penjelasan suhu-suhu disini, supaya transmisi matic dapat lebih awet.

Sebagai informasi, transmisi matic yg saya gunakan adalah non cvt.

Thanks

kalau teori safety driving: di N + disengaged parking brake.

kalau yang pernah saya baca2 di google mau transmisi apapun ya di N, mau satu jam juga terserah mau rem kaki atau rem tangan. P hanya untuk mesin mati dan parkir tentunya sesuai namanya P = Parking.

kalau untuk awet, sebenernya lebih bahaya dari misuse macem: di tanjakan masukin D sambil gas dikit = ala2 setengah kopling di MT, di parkiran ga pake rem tangan hanya P, di turunan masukin N ga pake D, pindah2 dari D ke R atau sebaliknya tidak berhenti total dulu, ga pernah ganti oli ATF, salah jenis oli ATF (karena ga baca/ga ngerti(asal percaya bengkel umum)/ga mau tahu isi buku manual).

memang jangan transmisi AT jenis apapun, MT is the best for longevity and maintaning.

[qushay20019]

Hi rekan2

Sebagai orang awam, saya mau tanya mengenai subject diatas. Selama ini yang saya lakukan, saat mobil matic diam di lampu merah :
- Apabila lampu merah tidak terlalu lama (dibawah 50s), posisi matic saya letakan di D dengan tetap menekan rem.
- Apabila lampu merah cukup lama, posisi matic saya pindahkan di N dengan posisi handbrake on

Thanks

Kalo ane liat di videonya otodriver/ fitra eri (lupa yang mana), batasan lama enggaknya malah 5 detik om, bukan 50 detik. Artinya kalo berentinya dau lebih 5 detik dia pindahin ke N.

Berdasarkan saran temen & yutup (yutub reputable, bukan yg abal2 ya) ane juga kalo parkir mobil matic jenis apapun (CVT, AT, dll) ane masuk N dulu, baru rem parkir, baru masuk P terakhir banget)

[maastricht889]

BTW, akhirnya saya mengerti kenapa ATF ada anti-shrudder.

Apa itu om fungsinya? Hehehe, br tau nya cuma flashing point

[Tampanman]

Hurufnya aja P(Park) yah artinya buat parkir kurang jelas apalagi?

Brarti yang D juga jelas (drive) artinya buat jalan bukan buat berhenti..

[adityabp]

BTW, akhirnya saya mengerti kenapa ATF ada anti-shrudder.

Apa itu om fungsinya? Hehehe, br tau nya cuma flashing point

My bad. yg bener anti-shudder.
Dan gak ada hubungannya dgn kopling yg aus.