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PostMessage posted...: 05 Oct 2008, 17:20 
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Bro Plasma;

saya kira dikasi jatah apa, kalo makan sih pasti dikasi lah.......... :big_weee:

Biar entar bini TD sendiri. Gara-gara Om penyubali tuh pamerin photo-photo mobilnya. udah nitip mau kayak jok nya si om penyu lagi.

@momod, bikin topik baru :big_smoking: jadinya Fortuner itu independent atau kagak????????? :big_peace:


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PostMessage posted...: 05 Oct 2008, 18:22 
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Bro Fortunerman,
Please u have proven your points. U know so much about your car and you don't like people giving wrong statements about your car; that's fair enough bro. But do you really think it's necessary to make people feel bad with ur nasty comments such as "pake otak" etc. Sorry to give u the impression that I have the luxury to go overseas to just hunt for parts and suggesting that I got precious time to waste, please bro u can't judge people just like that (I believe you don't like it either heh?). If you'd buy a new car, I bet you'd analyse the strengths and weaknesses of your car gonna be and decide wether all those qualities and weaknesses are justified. I am fully aware that Captiva is lacking in features as you have rightly said. On the overseas things I happened to have some importance that I have to attend there, so with that I believe I can use the opportunity to improve my Captiva thus my final decision to acquire the car in the end. Inefficiency is not my way of doing things, you don't know me so don't suggest as if you do. I have many things that I like about the car but I'd rather keep it to my own satisfaction rather than arguing with others.

I just simply think it's such a waste of ur intelligence and time to do all these things. U said we can't judge ur lifestyle, well at least from the way you behave in this forum I can tell one of your lifestyles bro, you like wasting your precious time for being inconsiderate towards others' feelings just for your own ego. Sorry for being so direct but I think it's time to call it off bro. Don't judge others if you don't want to be judged.

No offence. Hope we can discuss something positive next. Peace bro.

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PostMessage posted...: 05 Oct 2008, 19:15 
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The Captiva versus the Fortuner
I recently had a chance to talk to many automobile industry executives about Thailand's present situation, and both Thai and foreign executives agree that, in general, there is nothing to be worried about, except for the political situation.

Published on August 15, 2007


The Captiva versus the Fortuner

They only want the new election to be held, and then they believe everything will be just fine. Whether the new government lasts only six months or a year is not a problem, because we can always elect another one. After listening to them, I am now praying that all of the political factions stop being nuisances and actually do something that is good for the country. They like to say they love the country, but in reality they don't even deserve to live here.

Meanwhile, reader Cherd R has requested I compare two sport-utility vehicles. For ease of reading, I have inserted my answers after each of his questions.

Dear Khun Pattanadesh,

I am writing to seek your advice before making a decision to own either a Toyota Fortuner or Chevrolet Captiva. This is the last car I plan to buy, as I am approaching the last chapter of my life and intend to take my wife and relatives to visit places we have been thinking about. As a fan of your auto commentary, I would very much appreciate your opinion on the difference between the two models on the following issues:

Is there much difference in fuel consumption and wear and tear between four-wheel-drive on demand and full-time four-wheel-drive?

Fuel consumption is not so different, although in theory the full-time system is claimed to have a higher consumption. In reality, the fuel consumption of an on-demand (or real-time) four-wheel-drive system is no different, because as power switches back and forth between two and four wheels, the fuel consumption also rises and drops.

To ensure low fuel consumption in on-demand systems, you must be gentle with the throttle even while accelerating. Do not floor the petrol pedal, because the control unit may take it that extra traction is needed and will distribute power to all four wheels. Then, when the desired speed is achieved, it cuts back to two wheels. If you floor the petrol again, the process repeats itself, and this raises fuel consumption significantly.

Which is more durable?

I haven't had a chance to drive the diesel version of the Captiva yet, but the interesting thing is the engine has 150 horsepower and as much as 320Nm of torque at generally low engine revs, so engine wear should be low. The durability of modern diesel engines depends on how they are used as well as maintenance. As for future repairs, you have a better chance with the Toyota, due to the availability of service centres and spare parts.

Is the 2,000cc Captiva powerful enough to climb northern mountainous areas?

The 2,000cc diesel engine in the Captiva and its five-speed transmission (with the fifth gear ratio being 1:1, meaning there is no overdrive) should be able to get the vehicle up mountain roads comfortably if the driver is skilled enough and there is not too great a load. I believe the Captiva can travel any road in Thailand without trouble.

Will the resale value of the Captiva be much lower than that of the Fortuner in the next few years?

Where it comes to resale value, the Toyota is surely better.

Which vehicle offers better suspension?

The vehicles come with very different suspension systems, although the feel is very similar. The Captiva's suspension has been set for ride comfort, so much so that when you change lanes quickly, there is a lot of body roll.

The Fortuner's suspension has been modified from that of the Vigo pickup. Its predecessor, the Sport Rider, was harshly criticised for its poor ride and road-holding qualities, so for the Fortuner, Toyota replaced the leaf springs with coil springs. This gives it improved ride comfort, although there is still some "pickup feel" left.

For fast drivers, I would suggest stiffer shock absorbers for the Fortuner, since it is a heavy vehicle and there is considerable roll in corners. Stiffer shocks would help reduce this effect. The same advice applies to the Captiva, although I would suggest adjustable shock absorbers, to give it better roadworthiness.

I hope you find the right vehicle to suit your needs and that you enjoy the driving.

By Pattanadesh Asasappakij


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PostMessage posted...: 05 Oct 2008, 20:25 
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who is pattanadesh by the way?


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PostMessage posted...: 05 Oct 2008, 20:36 
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topiknya captiva diesel................................................................................................... :frm_bang_head:


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PostMessage posted...: 05 Oct 2008, 21:31 
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FortunerMan wrote:
porsea wrote:
FortunerMan, Stop Talking About other cars but CAPTIVA diesel. mungkin elo lebih ngerti kalo di bilangin pake bahasa Inggris yah lo kan guru inggris.. kt di sini pd bilang untuk lo buka thread baru,jgn recokin thread org melulu Pak... monggo silahkan.


Then stop spreading lies and misinformation. Sudah berapa kali salah data, salah argumen yang saya betulkan (termasuk anda). Hanya meluruskan yang sengaja atau tidak sengaja mengutarakan hal2 yang tidak benar, itu saja. Lanjut...


Pak FortunerMan Terhormat, memangnya di forum ini pengadilan? ada yang salah terus di hakimi? saya rasa di forum ini terbuka dan bebas bebas saja untuk mengutarakan opininya tentang mobil/motor dan saya rasa informasi yang saya kasih di topic ini ga ada maksud buat saya bohong, cm anda yg bilang saya bohong dan salah. Terimakasih saya tidak butuh di betulkan oleh anda. Sy harap Anda mengerti.

Terimakasih Pak FortunerMan yang Terhormat.


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PostMessage posted...: 06 Oct 2008, 00:18 
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porsea wrote:
FortunerMan wrote:
porsea wrote:
FortunerMan, Stop Talking About other cars but CAPTIVA diesel. mungkin elo lebih ngerti kalo di bilangin pake bahasa Inggris yah lo kan guru inggris.. kt di sini pd bilang untuk lo buka thread baru,jgn recokin thread org melulu Pak... monggo silahkan.


Then stop spreading lies and misinformation. Sudah berapa kali salah data, salah argumen yang saya betulkan (termasuk anda). Hanya meluruskan yang sengaja atau tidak sengaja mengutarakan hal2 yang tidak benar, itu saja. Lanjut...


Pak FortunerMan Terhormat, memangnya di forum ini pengadilan? ada yang salah terus di hakimi? saya rasa di forum ini terbuka dan bebas bebas saja untuk mengutarakan opininya tentang mobil/motor dan saya rasa informasi yang saya kasih di topic ini ga ada maksud buat saya bohong, cm anda yg bilang saya bohong dan salah. Terimakasih saya tidak butuh di betulkan oleh anda. Sy harap Anda mengerti.

Terimakasih Pak FortunerMan yang Terhormat.


Tentu saja bukan pengadilan, tapi kalau ada yang menkritik dengan fakta yang salah total, argumen yang tanpa bukti...karena ini forum bebas saya juga berhak memberi informasi yang benar (dengan bukti dan link2 ke sumber terpercaya, bukan omongan saya saja).

Di thread ini diskusi ttg apakah Captiva Diesel is worth to buy apa tidak...dan tentu saja ada comparison dengan mobil2 yang sekelasnya atau rentang harga yang sama. Fair enough, silahkan.

Misalnya bilang dashboard captiva soft plastic,Fortuner sekeras batu....betul, kenyataan! Saya mau ngomong Fortuner dashboardnya selembek bantal berarti saya bohong dan tidak terpercaya. Horsepower/torque Captiva diatas Fort Diesel, betul, kenyataan. Dan kalau anda baca tulisan2 saya, tidak pernah protes dengan fakta2 yg benar.

Kalo anda mengutarakan pendapat subjektif...misalnya, Ah Fortuner, gede bener, gendut kaya kura2. Silahkan, itu soal selera, saya mau protes apa?

Tapi kalo salah fakta - seperti claim bahwa suspension Fortuner sama sekali tidak independen karena dipangkas oleh TAM, atau bilang mesin 2TR-FE di Fortuner beda dengan yang di LC Prado (padahal jelas2 output sama, kode mesin sama), atau IMV tidak safe karena plat tipis (padahal crash test bagus), atau kaki2 tidak kuat (padahal Hilux tersohor dengan kekuatannya) ...apalagi ada yg berargumen bahwa pemilik Captiva adalah kaum berduit dibandingain pemilik Fortuner yang dari kaum pas2an tanpa data sama sekali (so far ini argumen yang paling ngawur)...karena ini adalah forum bebas...saya juga berhak memberi fakta yang benar, atau minta bukti.

Kalo saya atau siapa saja bilang, ah Captiva - emang banyak feature tapi setahun dua tahun juga jebol tuh mobil (tanpa data2 pendukung sama sekali)...atau...Ah beda lah Captiva sini ama Eropa, namanya juga GM pasti mau nipu....atau...ah orang beli Chevrolet karena gak mampu beli Toyota (dengan no proof at all). Anda protes tidak? Apa itu namanya "ngerecokin"?

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PostMessage posted...: 06 Oct 2008, 00:28 
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penyubali wrote:
Bro Fortunerman,
Please u have proven your points. U know so much about your car and you don't like people giving wrong statements about your car; that's fair enough bro. But do you really think it's necessary to make people feel bad with ur nasty comments such as "pake otak" etc. Sorry to give u the impression that I have the luxury to go overseas to just hunt for parts and suggesting that I got precious time to waste, please bro u can't judge people just like that (I believe you don't like it either heh?). If you'd buy a new car, I bet you'd analyse the strengths and weaknesses of your car gonna be and decide wether all those qualities and weaknesses are justified. I am fully aware that Captiva is lacking in features as you have rightly said. On the overseas things I happened to have some importance that I have to attend there, so with that I believe I can use the opportunity to improve my Captiva thus my final decision to acquire the car in the end. Inefficiency is not my way of doing things, you don't know me so don't suggest as if you do. I have many things that I like about the car but I'd rather keep it to my own satisfaction rather than arguing with others.

I just simply think it's such a waste of ur intelligence and time to do all these things. U said we can't judge ur lifestyle, well at least from the way you behave in this forum I can tell one of your lifestyles bro, you like wasting your precious time for being inconsiderate towards others' feelings just for your own ego. Sorry for being so direct but I think it's time to call it off bro. Don't judge others if you don't want to be judged.

No offence. Hope we can discuss something positive next. Peace bro.


Saya sih enjoy baca2 ttg mobil, diskusi ttg mobil - wong kerja saya juga di depan komputer terus...saya sih gak ngerasa wasting time....

Kalo saya bilang anda tidak "smart" karena memilih Captiva, atau...you bought a Chevy cause you can't afford something more expensive (with no proof), atau saya claim hal2 yang completely false about ur vehicle - anda protes gak bro? Simple question aja bro...be fair.

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PostMessage posted...: 06 Oct 2008, 00:37 
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plasmaboss wrote:
Saya pampangin statistik dsn datanya aja,pasti ada aja yg bisa si boss protes.... Tar d,saya suruh anak buah scanin buat si boss liad..... Oooo iya,kalo ngasi data,jgn hilux dunk boss,dari segi berat aja da beda boss.... Dan kalo bisa indonesia,kan kita di indonesia,bukan di luar negri..... standard mobil indonesia sudah pasti berbeda dgn luar negri..... Jadi lebih presisi datanya...... Kalo GM setau saya standarnya sesuai regionnya kan boss,region asia pasific,eropa,amerika,pny standar msg2 kan boss? kalo imv jg bikinan indo kcuali hilux double cab.... jd ya,kalo bisa datanya jgn jauh2 dr indo gtu.... singapur,malaysia,thailand,bole juga tu datanya....


Di Indonesia mana ada hasil crash test mas, siapa yang punya duit nabrak2in semua mobil dari semua ATPM atau IU? Jadi kalo anda menyebut Innova boleh (karena sama2 IMV), tapi kalo saya sebut Hilux (juga IMV) tidak boleh?

Hmmm...emang ada ya hasil crash test Captiva di Indonesia/Thailand/Malaysia, silahkan kasi link sama saya. Kalo mau claim aneh2 tanpa perlu bukti, saya juga bisa saja bilang, kalo kualitas GM di Indonesia beda dari seluruh dunia dan setahun lagi mobil anda akan rontok. Toh anda gak perlu bukti kan? Atau saya bilang anda beli Captiva karena gak mampu beli Toyota (seperti anda bilang pembeli Toyota dan Honda adalah kaum pas2an)...with absolutely no evidence or supporting data.

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PostMessage posted...: 06 Oct 2008, 10:15 
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dlm berdiskusi, harusnya claim2 (apalagi yg aneh2) dgn supporting evidence/data, drpd claim2 bersifat individu yg nanti bisa2 bersifat negatif.


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PostMessage posted...: 06 Oct 2008, 19:14 
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FortunerMan wrote:
Saya sih enjoy baca2 ttg mobil, diskusi ttg mobil - wong kerja saya juga di depan komputer terus...saya sih gak ngerasa wasting time....


Hehehe, bro Fortunerman, kalo anda merasa not wasting time in this, then I have nothing to say. Enjoy it while it lasts

FortunerMan wrote:
Kalo saya bilang anda tidak "smart" karena memilih Captiva, atau...you bought a Chevy cause you can't afford something more expensive (with no proof), atau saya claim hal2 yang completely false about ur vehicle - anda protes gak bro? Simple question aja bro...be fair.


Menjawab pertanyaan anda, gak saya gak bakal protes. Saya sudah bilang, selama saya happy dgn mobil saya, dan mobil saya bisa memenuhi harapan2 dan kebutuhan2 saya it's enough. Peduli amat orang bilang apa, lha wong saya ga digaji untuk bela GM/ Captiva habis2an di forum kok. O ya, saya ga ada chance utk kerja di depan komputer terus2an spt anda so itu juga bro jd kalo saya spt anda, saya bener2 wasting waktu saya. :upss: Cheers bro

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PostMessage posted...: 06 Oct 2008, 19:26 
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GTR wrote:
dlm berdiskusi, harusnya claim2 (apalagi yg aneh2) dgn supporting evidence/data, drpd claim2 bersifat individu yg nanti bisa2 bersifat negatif.


Saya setuju banget bro GTR...ayo lanjut...

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PostMessage posted...: 06 Oct 2008, 20:08 
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penyubali wrote:
FortunerMan wrote:
Saya sih enjoy baca2 ttg mobil, diskusi ttg mobil - wong kerja saya juga di depan komputer terus...saya sih gak ngerasa wasting time....


Hehehe, bro Fortunerman, kalo anda merasa not wasting time in this, then I have nothing to say. Enjoy it while it lasts

FortunerMan wrote:
Kalo saya bilang anda tidak "smart" karena memilih Captiva, atau...you bought a Chevy cause you can't afford something more expensive (with no proof), atau saya claim hal2 yang completely false about ur vehicle - anda protes gak bro? Simple question aja bro...be fair.


Menjawab pertanyaan anda, gak saya gak bakal protes. Saya sudah bilang, selama saya happy dgn mobil saya, dan mobil saya bisa memenuhi harapan2 dan kebutuhan2 saya it's enough. Peduli amat orang bilang apa, lha wong saya ga digaji untuk bela GM/ Captiva habis2an di forum kok. O ya, saya ga ada chance utk kerja di depan komputer terus2an spt anda so itu juga bro jd kalo saya spt anda, saya bener2 wasting waktu saya. :upss: Cheers bro


Cheers juga bro...lagian...none of my comments were directed at you, tulisan saya selalu ditujukan ke yang bikin claim (makanya selalu ada quotenya kan, jadi tau siapa persis siapa yang bikin komen aneh2 hehe)...saya juga ogah debat org yg komentar lurus2 aja...

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PostMessage posted...: 06 Oct 2008, 23:05 
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Permisi, berhubung argument masih hangat...

captiva 291,5jt (2.0turbo cdi 5speed a/t tiptronic 150hp/320nmImage 7seater abs ebd all discbrakes projector headlights, auto level rear suspension, alarm/immobilizer) berat 1.7ton. 0-100kph/62mph: +/-11dtk (klo solar indo mungkin lebih lambat) topspeed 112mph/180kph

VS

4tuner +/- 300jt (2KD-FTV D4-D turbo 2.5ltr manual 102hp/260nm :e-think: abs/ebd front disc n rear drum brakes) .0-96kph/60mph: n/a top speed: n/a (mgkin lebih lambat dari captiva, apalagi pk solar indo & body lebih berat)

Tambahan aja:
3.0 litre D-4D Cmmn Rail Turbo Diesel 1KD-FTV, manual,163hp/343nm, 0-96kph/60mph: +/- 12dtk max speed 106mph/170kph.

Data2 diatas dari bebrp review & pabrikan. Sulit cari performance review terutama acceleration utk 4tuner 2.5ltr diesel, klo captiva sgt mudah. (apakah pertanda 4tuner diesel memang underpower?)
Dgn hrg 9jutaan lebih murah captiva small engine w/ big output 5sp tiptronic bisa menggungguli 4tuner 2.5ltr diesel yg mesinnya lebih besar + lebih mahal tp msh manual. Jkt udah ga cocok pk manual, klo mobil nya murah sih okelah, tp 4tuner hrg tinggi. Sy jg tau 4tuner nxt yr keluar facelift dgn diesel 4speed nya, tp sptnya bakal agak mahal ya. Yg manual aja +/- 300jt. Menurut sy facelift 4tuner cukup ok, cukupmenghibur lah secara tenaganya yg kurang itu. Kalo cm facelift mendingan tahan dulu, palingan ga lama keluar all new nya. Sm kayak jazz dulu, cm beda taillights, tau2 2008 keluar all new. Crv juga begitu dulu.

Captiva dari korea dlm asuhan Chevy GM Daewoo dan GM Australia (holden). 4tuner adalah toyota project IMV, produk thai.

The question is: Jika 4tuner tidak beremblem toyota, kira2 tertarikkah anda membeli? Image


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PostMessage posted...: 06 Oct 2008, 23:24 
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:ungg: Sy perjelas dulu sy tidak anti/sentiment thd toyota, secara my family has been around toyota now n then, lgpula sy coba bandingin captiva n 4tuner diesel krn hrg nya dalam range yg sama. Tp krn anda terus2an bw toyota, jd ya...

FortunerMan wrote:
Bagus anda mengakui data anda salah. Memang sepantasnya lebih mahal Toyota daripada Chevrolet.

Data? Sy test sendiri captiva krn tdnya ga percaya mesin 2.0ltr tarikan gede. Klo 4tuner, byk review dari majalah, forum/org2, bhw mesinnya pun = innova yg terkenal boros & kurang power (bebrp owner nya udah share pula disini kan?). Sy pernah coba innova. Di innova aja boros, apa lg di 4tuner yg bongsor badannya.

Btw, 4tuner produk thai (bukan cuma rakitan, sama halnya spt indonesia produksi avanza), krn toyota ingin bersaing dgn mobil korea yg relatif murah. Oleh krn itu dibuat di thailand utk cutting production cost. Klo diproduk di jepang & ckd, hrg nya pasti lebih tinggi dari yg skrg. Berarti 4tuner anda pun bukan type toyota “mahal”. Krn setau sy, toyota project imv memang ditargetkan utk low cost production cars.

Captiva dr daewoo yg sahamnya di beli GM (klo nyaris bangkrut ga mungkin beli saham ya?) belakangan mobil2 korea spt hyundai (santa fe), kia (sorrento) namanya naik di diesel. Captiva yg ke Indo dirakit di thai, di oz pun under Holden badge. Sebagian di europe dgn nama Opel (secara holden disana juga opel) atau vauxhall, chevy di UK, di USA dgn nama Saturn Vue. Jd knp hrs membesar2kan mobil yg menyamar? This is old stuff, thn’92an chevy trooper ind mesinnya isuzu. Ssangyong bermesin merc dsb. Di oz sekitar ‘95an, toyota pun membuat lexcen sama persis dengan holden commodore (GM oz) hanya beda di mesin saja yg lebih kecil, holden commodore yg dikirim ke luar bernama chevy lumina.

Dulu toyota pun begitu dgn premium cars nya masuk US dgn nama Lexus (nama yg berbau kebaratan malah ada yg bilang singkatan dari luxury export to US) sbg trick marketing utk bisa ‘play’ di pasaran cadilac, chevy, buick, jeep, ford & lainnya utk merebut hati americans tahun 89. FAKTA.

Toyota lebih pantas mahal dari chevy?? bandingin ke mobil chevy yg mana dulu? Pantas mahal di negara mana?? Klo bandingin yg ada di indonesia, skrg ini yg paling mahal memang captiva diesel, klo chevy popular di indo pasti type chevy nya lebih banyak. Jd lain rumput lain belalang.
Ini sekedar info aja
Chevy equinox basic 3.4ltr v6 $25,000an di US, kalo masuk sini palingan sekitar 400jtan termasuk pajak dll.
Image

Chevy suburban (sejarah suburban sejak 1933, toyota landcruiser thn 1940, prado thn ’84, fortuner thn2004/5an) 2008 muat 9org biasa dipake pengawalan/FBI, type basic aja $40,000 5.3ltr v8 klo masuk sini sekitar 900-1m kali. Quality, hm, mungkin klo anda pernah liat suburban tua berstir kiri kadang2 masih ada yg ngegelinding di jkt.
ini yg 2008
Image

Ada yg lain masih dlm type suv juga, tp hrgnya berkisar US$30rb smp US$55rb. Jd toyota yg mana dulu pantes mahal?

Sy perhatiin garis curve jendela belakang di 4tuner dr harrier/lexus rx? Image
Image

Dan design depan dari hilux vigo? Image
Image

Btw, anda kerapkali bilang toyota, pdhal sy tdnya cm compared ke 4tuner, not the whole toyota fleet.
Mumpung ngomongin diesel, prado gx 3.0 d4d hanya 128hp/252lb..hmm..fakta lho.
:big_smoking:


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PostMessage posted...: 06 Oct 2008, 23:30 
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FortunerMan wrote:
Kalo mau perbandingan harus dengan parameter yg sama. Dengan perawatan wajar untuk kedua mobil - yg kira2 lebih tahan lama yang mana? Gimana sih, ini pelajaran SMA...pernah bikin percobaan di lab?

ga usah repot pak, it all depends on the owner. kalo owner apik=mobil awet. Kecuali klo mobil defect/gagal produksi.

Bandingin aja mobil anak2 club merc yg tua, dgn type thn yg sama tp owner nya asal2an. Mana yg lebih tahan, mobil anak club atau yg asal2an? Sengaja sy pk cth mercedes yg resale value nya jeblok tp materialnya diatas toyota kemana mana.

Kepala mekanik bengkel khusus cbu (bukan TAM) yg sering nanganin toyota bilang alphard klo pake nya kasar, shock cpt jebol, kebetulan pas ada alphard baru 20ribuan shocknya rusak. Krn shocknya ga sebanding dengan bodynya yg bongsor. Secara alphard dasarnya di design utk jalan2 mulus spt di LN. Fakta.

Cth lagi, mobil sy thn ‘01, teman sy ’05, berbeda merk/type. Jamur2 di mobil nya lebih parah drpd mobil saya, apalg kacanya, sulit melihat sewkt hujan. Sedangkan kc mobil sy tdk berjamur, krn terawat. Pdhal mobil sy lebih tua 4thn. Fakta.

Bukan bermaksud bilang toyota jelek, tapi pointnya tergantung ke owner nya, terlepas dari quality. Quality seiring dgn hrg. Cth avanza, body nya kopong sama dgn suzuki apv, hrg nya jg murah.
Soal tebel plat captiva, sy compare dgn all new crv & old xtrail, +/- sama. Memang soal interior captiva looks cheap (kembali ke harga lagi), tp ga serta merta quality nya hancur, tergantung ngerawatnya. Klo compare ke innova, msh tebelan captiva.

cth a/c button alphard yg jarang terpakai, tapi cat nya sedikit memudar
Image

Image

sengaja sy pk cth type toyota yg mahal sekalian. Tp sy ga sterotyping jelek, pointnya tergantung perawatan.
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PostMessage posted...: 06 Oct 2008, 23:33 
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FortunerMan wrote:
Kemaren katanya kalo basis pickup jelek semua, trus kalo pickup ya pickup aja hahaha...baguslah kalo sudah mengerti salah. Fortuner 2.7 juga share engine dengan Landcruiser Prado 2.7 (engine code 2TR-FE). Toyota Harrier juga share engine dengan Camry dan juga Alphard (engine code 1MZ-FE, 2AZ-FE, 2GR-FE). Sharing platform dan mesin adalah wajar di dunia otomotif - baca2 dululah, perdalam pengetahuan[/b]

Wah hebat pk code mesin. Sy ga se ‘geek’ itu, tp sy tambahin deh, 4tuner & prado bensin mesinnya sama dgn Tacoma. Prado 2.7ltr vvti dohc bensin 160hp, un4tunately beda dgn 4tuner anda cuma 158hp. Beda? Bukan data sy lho, itu dari hasil beberapa review.

Sy tau harrier/lexus rx, camry, alphard bermesin sama. Sy sangat sangat familiar dgn 3 type tsb. Jd sy ga asbun. Frame cm mirip bukan berarti using the exact frame, krn tinggi/size/ground clearance berbeda. Interior pun beda. Sedangkan 4tuner bs dibilang hilux tukar baju (beda di body dan rear coil springs)& interior dari Innova. Yg lebih parah lagi, ada yg bilang 4tuner = ipah tuker baju.
4tuner dash:
Image

mirip dgn innova dash:
Image

Knp anda compare ke bensin? Itu sudah beda perimeter (bahasa anda nih). Sedangkan sy seblmnya hanya compare ke diesel jg.
2kd-ftv 2.5ltr 102ps commonrail yg terpasang di innova/4tuner diesel. 1kz-te non commonrail 130ps di hilux dan prado 90. Beda kan? Fakta lho.

Sy ga anggap semua pick-up/truck based cars jelek, cuma 4tuner saja yg kurang. Ada yg bilang 4tuner limbung, suspensi keras dsb. Reality check, sy blm pernah ketemu 4tuner berlari kencang/gesit, mungkin krn itu tadi. Cth, sy pernah ke bdg pk jazz di tol. Tiba2 dari ada mobil besar berlampu hid yg terang nempel minta jalan, sy tau itu 4tuner bensin. Sy penasaran pengen tau spt apa power 4tuner, sy tarik jazz, kondisi tanjakan. Lurus saja sudah tertinggal, apalg klo sy zig zag. Itu cm dgn jazz 1.5lt idsi saja.
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PostMessage posted...: 06 Oct 2008, 23:39 
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FortunerMan wrote:
ha ha...salah sekali. Kebanyakan orang berpikir buat dipake dengan pertimbangan perawatan, dan harga jual kembali di masa depan. Silahkan survey sendiri. Kenapa mesti pusing...banyak pilihan mobil2 yg harga jual kembalinya mantap - sayang sekali Chevrolet tidak termasuk

Org beli mobil di atas 300jt spt anda msh pusing resale value? Jgn beli klo gitu. Org yg berani beli mobil hrg segitu, berarti siap dgn bea perawatan, pajak dll. Setiap brg ada depresiasi. Lihat camry 2003 hrg nya hancur hny 160jutaan setelah camry type baru muncul. Ga semua toyota punya resale value tinggi.

Chevy memang tidak termasuk ber-resale value kuat, begitu pula mercedes benz, bmw, vw, landrover, range rover, mitsubishi, nissan, jeep, ford, volvo, subaru, peugeot, ferrari, lambo, jaguar, hummer, cb tanyakan owner nya, pusingin resale value ga. Paling2 anda ditertawakan. Maintenance & pajak pasti udah otomatis mrk siap. Yg ada hny untung pake. Kecuali klo mobil itu jadi klasik spt toyota hardtop yg sudah di”bangun” kembali. Jika pusing resale value sewkt beli yg ada ga bs enjoy mobilnya.

Resale value tergantung di tempat produk itu terjual, bs bertahan krn jumlah consumer thd produk tsb. Di eropa, europeans fanatik dgn mobil eropa, apakah resale value toyota/non europeans kuat disana? Sy ga asbun, sy cari toyota harrier, alphard, camry, bahkan fortuner & honda jarang sekali ketemu. Honda accord europe produksi UK pun ga ketemu. Bahkan lexus (toyota berimage USA) jarang terlihat. Yg sering terlihat bmw, volvo, scoda, fiat, peugeot, vw, mercedes, & merk europe lainnya. Demand & supply.

Di indonesia, ga semua toyota beresale value kuat. Hanya avanza, kijang & 4tuner, krn terjangkau di indo, murmer. Knp murmer? Bisa muat banyak & terjangkau & ada emblem toyota. Toyota yg kelas mid-up, seperti harrier, alphard, camry, lc bensin hrg nya hancur terlebih setelah bbm naik. Hny legend nya aja yg kuat spt lc vx 80-100 diesel. Nah anda tanyakan d owner2 toyota type mahal itu, apakah mereka mikirin resale value???

Btw, kijang setelah berubah muka jadi ipah, ga sekacang goreng seperti kijang super/grand rover dulu. Dulu kijang grand super 1.8ltr bensin org udah tau boros tp tenaga lemah. Skrg ipah hrg nya sudah relatif mahal utk image “kijang” & boros pula. Org cenderung beli daihatsu terios/ toyota rush, avanza/xenia. Btw, daihatsu juga jeblok resale nya, tp tetep banyak berkeliaran (lebih banyak dr 4tuner), suzuki apv jg, krn buyer nya mentingin fungsional yaitu kapasitas gede tp murah. Bukti aja, bhw resale value is not always important.

Apa yg terjadi bila captiva beremblem “H” di grill nya? Atau baling2 muter bmw? Atau bintang benz? pasti toyota kalang kabut. Skrg mungkin sudah cukup kalang kabut dgn emblem chevy, krn captiva mesin kecil 7seater namun power cukup besar, hrg lebih murah pula, diesel lagi. Yg org liat, irit, muat banyak, ga terlalu bongsor, matic, abs.

Org suka mo beli ya beli aja, soal perawatan spare part masih ok utk consideration tp ga perlu pusing resale value. Kecuali kalo anda dagang mobil, atau beli mobil hanya utk liburan/mudik doang lalu dijual lagi.

Sorry nih, bukan masalah duit ga berarti. Kalo anda bilang duit masih ada artinya, sama sy jg, makanya sy bilang 4tuner diesel kemahalan masih manual & kurang tenaga, apalg yg bensin sy yakin boros 2.7nya.

Kebetulan di otomotif 15/XVIII 18/08/08 review captiva bensin vs new xtrail vs new crv, disitu ada pendapat dr salah 1 volunteer:”kalo resale value prefer new crv, tapi klo ga mikir buat dijual kembali, saya pilih captiva krn modelnya bagus”. Berarti sy ga sendirian dgn opinion itu.
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PostMessage posted...: 06 Oct 2008, 23:46 
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FortunerMan wrote:
Salah sekali menggunakan pengalaman pribadi (satu orang), sedangkan survei yg profesional mengatakan pelayanan Toyota bagus. Masih sibuk cari MID ya...kasian, di pangkas semua ya. Di Thailand aja lengkap tuh. Sekali lagi ini pelajaran statistik SMA, mana ada statistik yg benar dengan sample satu hahaha

Sy pk pengalaman pribadi, tp ga hny 1 kasus. Sy jg denger dr pengendara toyota lain. Adik sy estimate shock camry di TAM, lalu cek hrg di toko yg mana TAM pun ambil disitu, hrg nya jauh lebih murah dari TAM. Klo beda dikit sih msh wajar. Sy ga bilang semua TAM jelek, tp ga semua bagus spt yg anda banggakan. Cth sy pernah spooring di TAM aja ga beres2, bayangkan, hanya spooring. Akhirnya sy bw ke bengkel khusus spooring.

Cth pengalaman sy dgn shock harrier, sy lsg ke toko langganan yg biasa didtgin org TAM, pas sy cek shock yg genuine bercap/kardus toyota, trnyata ada grafir kyb & tokico di tabung shock nya. Set depan & belakang beda factory. Hrg dpn blakang hampir 8jtan dgn cap toyota. Kebetulan sy tau toko yg jual kyb khusus harrier, sy beli dpn blkang hny ¼ dr hrg yg berlogo toyota. Menandakan duit msh berarti buat sy, hanya cari dgn akal saja repair cost bisa turun jauh. Setelah dipasang, klop semua, spec & handling pun sama.

Jd dimanakah “peace of mind” yg anda bilang? Anda mungkin lsg percaya dgn omongan atpm & tinggalin mobil di atpm saja?

Sy tahu di th, uk, oz, nz variant captiva nya lebih komplit. Begitu pula dgn 4tuner anda yg di LN yg berfeature & variant lebih lengkap drpd versi indo. Captiva indo dispecdown utk bs masuk 250-300jutaan market area utk everest & 4tuner diesel, tanpa mengurangi hal2 penting seperti tenaga & auto transmisi yg mana tiptronic. Tanpa mid, atau cruise control, atau audio steer, mobil nya tetep bs jln. If top of the range nya captiva yg masuk ke sini, akhirnya main di level crv-xtrail seperti di luaran.

Lgpula pasti GM nya sudah membidik ke type customer spt apa, apalg dgn adanya faktor bbm naik. Target mereka kemungkinan besar pecinta/previously chevy owner dan customer yg lebih ke fungsional (power, kapasitas,FC). Krn Gm jg tau, org indo suka gonta ganti HU, double din, tv, audio dll. Cruise ctrl yah ga terlalu perlu, sering macet.

Nah baru2 ini otomotif edisi21/XVIII 29/9/08 meliput ada owner FORTUNER DIESEL baru ganti transmisi MANUAL ke matic, maunya matic tp atpm nya blm merelease. AKHIRNYA OPREK SENDIRI GANTI PAKE AUTOMATIC TRANS merk aisin-warner, ongkos nya 17.5jt... how pathetic is that? :glodak: trans nya bukan dari toyota juga lagi, alamat penyakitan deh. Mobil klo udah ganti jeroan mesin, coupling, trans dll mendingan dijual aja deh. Msh baru dipasaran tp mo ganti transmisi, repot jg ya. Jatuhnya lebih mahal dan ribet daripada masang mid, cruise ctrl, audio steer kan?

Btw, sy kira 4tuner rear sudah disc tp ternyata masih DRUM BRAKES. Captiva sudah all disc brakes, only 291.5mil.

Dimana peace of mind nya?

Mungkin TAM masukkin 4tuner 2.5 d4d pake manual supaya hrg nya lebih murah & supaya ngebantu dongkrak tenaganya yg kecil itu, kebayang kan 100ps pk matic, pasti ga ada tarikan. klo dimasukkin yg versi 3.0ltr hrg nya tinggi. Sy heran majalah yg review 4tuner diesel & bilang raja tanjakkan tp di paragraf yg lain, bilang hrs pintar main gigi pada rpm yg tepat. Itu penulisan 4tuner kurang torque secara halus.

Btw, sy ga sibuk cr mid/audiosteer/cruise ctrl. Ga senorak itulah, bukan hal2 baru jg utk sy. Yg penting, power mobil cukup besar sebanding dgn size body nya, 5sp a/t tiptronic, abs 4channel, ebd, pwr window, a/c, tape, self adjust rear suspension (ini jarang ketemu di mobil lain yg hrg nya segini, jd sy anggap bonus) come as standard, muat 7 jika perlu, bagasi lumayan lalu dicompare ke hrg nya yg cukup sebanding.

Feature lain yg bersifat pemanis spt mid tidak terlalu penting. Audiosteer, sy msh sanggup mencapai tombol tape. cruise ctrl pun hny terpakai di tol, itupun sewkt sepi. Sy rasa kompensasi hrg murah cukup tergantikan dgn power / feature2 di basic captiva.
Btw, pengalaman 1 org bisa meng’inspirasi’ banyak lho.


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PostMessage posted...: 06 Oct 2008, 23:59 
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roadtrain99 wrote:
Toyota lebih pantas mahal dari chevy?? bandingin ke mobil chevy yg mana dulu?


Ini udah common knowledge...Contohnya di Amerika Camry/Accord pasti lebih mahal dr Chevrolet Malibu, Corolla/Civic pasti lebih mahal dari Chevrolet saingannya (Chevrolet Cobalt).

roadtrain99 wrote:
Mumpung ngomongin diesel, prado gx 3.0 d4d hanya 128hp/252lb..hmm..fakta lho.


Ya betul, itu adalah mesin yang sama dipake di Fortuner 3.0 D4D. Mesin yang cukup kuat dipake di sebuah Landcruiser, berarti terjamin kuat dan tahan banting (bukan paling kenceng lho...sekali lagi nama saya bukan Hamilton atau Alonzo hehe)

Toyota bukan merek yg punya mesin terkencang atau feature terlengkap. The brand is known for rock sold reliability, mungkin the best in the world 11-12 lah sama Honda. Reliability itu ada harganya, bukan feature di waktu baru saja. Makanya mobil Toyota atau Honda diuber pencari mobil bekas...kenapa? Karena reliable. Itu yang saya beli - saya bukan anak SMA mau kebut2an di jalan raya...gak dapet piala juga :P

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PostMessage posted...: 07 Oct 2008, 00:01 
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FortunerMan wrote:
Memang bukan membahas Fortuner, tapi anda membandingkan Fortuner dengan data2 yang tidak akurat dan argumen yang tidak benar. Sudah berkali kali data anda salah. Kok jadinya Kesannya menghibur diri sendiri...saya hanya meluruskan

Sy bandingin hrg captiva thd feature nya. Klo dibandingin ke 4tuner diesel, itu acuan krn di pasaran yg range hrg nya sama. Sehingga punya argumen yg berarti. Bukan sekedar self amusement. Yg ngebahas 4tuner detail smp ke toyota segala kan anda. Jika data sy kurang akurat, ya wajar sy bukan representative toyota. Setidak2nya pendapat sy tentang 4tuner masih ada benarnya, sperti torque lemah & low hp, boros, kelimbungan, frame sharing dgn ipah/hilux, mesin d4d yg sama dgn ipah.

Btw, katanya 4tuner sanggup mkn solar indo hm..ok, sy pernah liat 4tuner asep nya tebel, padahal udah cmmnrail. Lc vx100 1HD-FTE 4.2ltr (196hp/431.49nm) non atpm yg ga dikondisikan cocok dgn solar indo aja ga berasap. Ipah aja ga berasap. Fakta.

Sy pernah nemu di suatu forum 4tuner, ada yg bilang semacam ecu /electric managementnya *lupa jelasnya* 4tuner ditaruh di bawah deket sekitar sasis & menyarankan tidak dibawa banjir2an/lumpur yg parah2 sebgmn true offroader/full suv 4x4 lainnya. Ini info yg baik utk anda.
Sy jg pernah denger diesel di innova sempat ditarik balik tapi tidak dipublikasikan. Ga bakalan d ketemu di internet beginian.

Dont confuse prado with 4tuner, prado is of Landcruiser family, 4tuner is of IMV.
Ini prado
Image

Ini 4tuner
Image

Mirip dgn hilux
Image

Mirip juga ke Innova
Image

mirip ke avanza
Image

Sy quote dari wikipedia aja biar "akurat" hehehe:” The Fortuner is part of Toyota's IMV project which include the Hilux, Innova and the Avanza.” Fakta nih. Jd sy ga bo’ong klo 4tuner sama dgn ipah.Image

O yeah, btw u kept goin’ on rambling about labs and stats. FYI so far, car manufacturers do tests on urban roads for most cars and not-so-heavy off roads for suv’s, circuits and inside workshops, not labs.
If you’re so good at stats, why dont u go & apply for job @ biro statistik so you can do stats as much as u like? Supaya indo punya stats yg “professional”.
O iya, baru lulus sma? Atau anda guru sma, ngomongin sma melulu...hmm...
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PostMessage posted...: 07 Oct 2008, 00:09 
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roadtrain99 wrote:
ga usah repot pak, it all depends on the owner. kalo owner apik=mobil awet. Kecuali klo mobil defect/gagal produksi.


Kalo uang tidak terbatas dan apik dan segala macam ya semua mobil jadi tahan lama. Ganti aja mesinnya sekalian tiap 5 tahun, jadi bagus terus deh :P Yang dibicarakan adalah...dengan perawatan normal mana yang lebih kira2 lebih awet. Ini adalah keahlian Toyota dan Honda...yg konsisten tinggi terus peringkatnya bertahun tahun.

Saya rada males jawab yang ini, soalnya udah pengetahuan umum. Kalo anda gak ngerti ya sudah. Di Amerika majalah Consumer Reports ada annual report tentang used cars yang mendetail dari tahun ke tahun, mobil apa yang perawatannya mahal (sering masuk bengkel) dan paling banyak defectnya. Buat apa? Iseng? Kurang kerjaan?

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PostMessage posted...: 07 Oct 2008, 00:19 
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roadtrain99 wrote:
Dont confuse prado with 4tuner, prado is of Landcruiser family, 4tuner is of IMV.


Ha ha ha dimana saya confuse LC Prado dengan Fortuner? Tolong tunjukkan tapi memang banyak similaritynya...karena memang semacam cousinnya. Dua2nya truck based (LC Prado based dr Tacoma, Fortuner based dr Hilux)

I. Varian LC Prado dan Fortuner share TIGA mesin

1. 2.7 Bensin (2TR-FE)
2. 3.0 D4D (2KD-FTV)
3. 4.0 Bensin (1GR-FE)

Hanya satu varian Fortuner yang tidak share mesin dengan LC Prado, yaitu 2.5 Diesel (1KD-FTV)

II. Share ladder-frame construction dan suspension setup...independent depan dan rigid axle di belakang.

Dua2nya tough SUV, tapi yang satu mewah dan lebih canggih transmisi/rem/suspension dan yang satu biasa2 aja. Harganya juga beda jauh, pantes lah...but both tough bad boys...

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PostMessage posted...: 07 Oct 2008, 00:37 
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roadtrain99 wrote:
Sy quote dari wikipedia aja biar "akurat" hehehe:” The Fortuner is part of Toyota's IMV project which include the Hilux, Innova and the Avanza.” Fakta nih. Jd sy ga bo’ong klo 4tuner sama dgn ipah


Salah. Avanza tidak termasuk program IMV. Cari info lagi, wiki tidak selalu akurat, makanya cari info jangan di satu source.

Fortuner dan Innova adalah saudara kandung, yang bilang bukan siapa? Ini les gratis. IMV adalah Fortuner, Innova, dan Hilux. Platform sama, share mesin (dengan beberapa pengecualian - hanya Innova yang punya varian 3.0 D4D atau 4.0 V6 dan Full Time 4WD). Innova punya dashboard sendiri, Fortuner dan Hilux sama. Hilux terkenal dengan julukan "indestructible" nya...and I like tough cars. baca2 lagi ya

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PostMessage posted...: 07 Oct 2008, 00:52 
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roadtrain99 wrote:
Wah hebat pk code mesin. Sy ga se ‘geek’ itu, tp sy tambahin deh, 4tuner & prado bensin mesinnya sama dgn Tacoma. Prado 2.7ltr vvti dohc bensin 160hp, un4tunately beda dgn 4tuner anda cuma 158hp. Beda? Bukan data sy lho, itu dari hasil beberapa review


Fortuner 2.7 juga 160hp, salah info lagi bro. It's the same engine (2TR-FE, Hp dan torque sama). Gak bisa ya terima Fortuner ternyata pake mesin mobil yang jauh lebih mahal? :P Susah sekali nampaknya...
http://paultan.org/archives/2005/08/27/ ... -malaysia/

roadtrain99 wrote:
Sy ga anggap semua pick-up/truck based cars jelek, cuma 4tuner saja yg kurang. Ada yg bilang 4tuner limbung, suspensi keras dsb. Reality check, sy blm pernah ketemu 4tuner berlari kencang/gesit, mungkin krn itu tadi.


Truck-based/ladder frame SUV (Fortuner, LC, LC Prado) tidak dirancang untuk lari gesit, tapi untuk kerja berat (utility). Lain dengan crossover city SUV yang dirancang untuk main2 di kota saja, tapi mengambil tough image dari SUV tradisional (CR-V/RAV4/X-Trail/Captiva/dll)

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